Is it ich or bacteria?

[Bill T.]

I noticed a few white specks on one of my discus last night. Upon closer inspection, I found my cadinals had broken out in white spots also. I have started a treatment for "ich", but could it be something else, like a bacteria starting up?

Don't know where the ich could have come from because I've had a stable population for about a month now?

I'm going to service my U.V. & put a new globe in also - it's about 10 months old.

[Merrilyn]

Any chance you had a powerout at some stage overnight, which allowed the temp to drop?

White spot is present in the tank all the time in small numbers, but healthy fish can fight it off. All it takes is a stress factor, like a drop in temperature, and the white spot can increase to epidemic proportions.

It's a good thing you caught it early, it's fairly easy to cure with medication. :P

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Bill,

You sure it is 'ich'?

Ladyred is right in that it is very easy to treat.

There is an even easier way than to use medication and that is to maintain salinity more than 1ppt in your discus or tetra tank. 1 to 2 ppt salinity is tolerable by most fishes. But this treatment cannot help for chronic infestation and must use 30 to 40ppt salt solution dip.

The only problem is those hiding under the scales...the adult ones....seems like no treatment can kill them and if the water does not favour their proliferation...in other word..not dirty enough, they can stay under the scale for more than 6 months. Treatment can only eliminate those free swimming and those on the fish surface.

Just a thought!!

Andrew :angel

[Bill T.]

I'm not sure about the salt approach as I have some nicely flourishing plants - wouldn't want to kill them with salt.

I will see what the situation is when I get home tonight. Hopefully all better. I must see if I can get a thermometer that will measure highest and lowest temperatures - with down to 4C ambient temperatures, maybe my heater isn't quite up to the task?

What about polarfleece pullovers for the fish? One day I will have an idea that will make me rich!

[Merrilyn]

Hope they're looking better tonight Bill.

I like the idea of the pullovers for the fish :lol:

Maybe a wetsuit instead :wink:

[Bill T.]

Q: How long should it take for white spot to dissapear, assuming the medication I have used is working?

[Andrew Soh]

:D Hello Bill,
The first frontline against disease is Salt for ich and velvet.......long bath @ 200gm to 100liter water. I am not sure whether it will affect your plants...must do a trial someday.

The best frontline against all external parasites (ectoparasites) including bacteria and protozoans except nematodes, bigger worms and insects is Potassium Permanganate. A treatment of 2mg to 1 liter of water....most micro-organisms are dead. But because of cyst leftover which is not affected by treatment, reinfection may occur and there is a need to repeat treatment 4 to 5 times at 4 days interval to break the cycle.

PP is very effective oxidizing agent but must not be used together with formalin. :?

WArmest regards,
Andrew :angel

[Bill T.]

Andrew.
Thanks for the information about PP.

Q: Should I treat the whole tank with this, or just the effected fish? What effects on biological filtration? What risk of toxicity if I mess up the dose?

I took some of my fish to the lfs & they said it was bacterial, not ich. Their advice was to treat the whole tank with tetracycline.

[Fishpimpin73]

The most effective treatment for Ich is HEAT and SALT.

As for the LFS that told you to use Tetracyclene.............
9 times out of 10 they didn't know what is wrong with your fish.
Tetracyclene is one of the STRONGEST meds that you can put in your aquarium and should only be used in a last ditch effort.

[Andrew Soh]

Hello Bill,

PP is the same as any other chemical and overdose is toxic. But in general,it is quite safe to use @ 2mgm/liter water..very little. Best to dissolve in a small bag before pouring in. It is an oxidizing agent and will oxidize 99% of all external parasites (ectoparasites) including those Nitrifying bacteria in you biofilter.

Try not to use antibiotics frequently as to prevent resistant strains of bacteria developing. Also, tetracycline will also destroy the bac. in your filter.

Regards,
Andrew

[Merrilyn]

Andrew do you use this as a dip, and if so for how long, or do you treat the entire tank? If you treat the entire tank, do you do water changes in between treatments?

[Andrew Soh]

:D Hello Merrilyn,

I find it easy to use because I had in many occasions dissected discus and fishes that were affirmatively and heavily infested with ectoparasites and common micro-organisms one day after treatment. Whether they are from glass tanks, plastic containers or outdoor cement tanks, after 24 hours of treatment, the tanks including the fishes were free from external living organisms.

But some may carry cyst..thus to break the cycle repeat treatmens 4 days interval and 4 repeated treatments should work. 'ich' is a little bit difficult if they are hiding underneath the scales...can survive treatment for six months.

I do not recommend dip as this method is troublesome, may not kill well and stress discus/fishes.

The recommended dose is 1gm to 1 liter of water (3.800gm to 1gallon) and treat for 20 to 40 seconds for discus...but must remember...very stressful.

Water-change in between? Well, in Singapore, I think most of us change water once everyday or once every 2 days....so after treatment, there will be a lot of oxidized debris and dead orgsanisms so usually clean and siphon out all the rubbish.

Anyway, I think change is better...sorry, never gave thought to that issue. If you don't want, you can don't change..I tried that before..but not as an experiment but rather because of my laziness.

regards,
Andrew