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View Full Version : Calling all discus detectives - what on earth went wrong?



DQ
Tue Apr 13, 2004, 02:04 AM
Hello all,

I would really appreciate any help that people can offer regarding my first venture with Discus and why the result has been so poor. (This is a bit of a saga.) i have not been a fish keeper very long and thus don't know many of the tricks of the trade)

At the end of January this year I purchased 6 four month old discus and put them in my 3 foot tank, which had 2 golden algea eaters and 5 neons in it)

(Tank had been cycled, has under gravel filtration and the water conditions where fine)

After about a week one of the babies had the appearance white fluff which I guessed to be fungus on his fins. We put this discus into our hospital tank and he seemed much better after about 6 days, the fluff was gone and his colouring was much lighter than his normal dark appearance.

We put him back into the main tank in the following morning he apeared really bad and died the next day. (Water conditions in the hospital tank appeared the same as the main tank. - He looked like a mutant, perhaps from cross breading as he had a rectangular shaped head - we put his death down to the fact he was a mutant)

About a week later some of the other discus began showing signs of white poo which through some web research I found out to be a build up of parasites in it's tummy. (I may have been wrong however)

Within a day or so all of the discus had this 'White poo disease' and did not seem interested in food. The local aquarium people suggested some anti parasite tablets which where to be disolved and put in the tank. We followed this medication treatement as specified on the bottle and a couple of the fish seemed better.

Two of the discus did not get better and stayed in one place near the heater and did not eat for a week or two, one of the fish seemed better and the other two seemed like they where getting better, but then seemed ill again shortley afterwards.

We guessed that the fish where eating the infected poo and where getting sick again so we did another dose of the mediaction (about 2 weeks after finishing the first course.)

During that week the two discus that where hiding away and not eating died, leaving three left in the tank.

This medication seemed to work a bit with one fishing seeming very well and the other two seeming just ok, with bits of brown in their poo but mostly white, they where eating a bit which was good.

We where concerned that the 3 algea eaters in the tank where frightening the discus due to their erratic behaivor so we caught them and put them in the other tank.

We also began to do daily water changes as opposed to the twice weekly change, thinking that we coud syphon of any affected poo so they wouldnt get sick again.

We followed this routine for about a month and one of the fish which seemed healthy had grown to twice the size of the others.

Last week the two not so healthy fish continued their white pooing and began to act like the other who had died, we redosed the tank with the anti parasite drugs and waited.

The final straw was that our healthy discus began to get ill, he had very small amount of white fluff on some fins and a what seemed like one or two white dots on his gill area.

We did a check of the water parameters (PH, amonia, nitrite and nitrate / harnesse ect) and found the water to be perfect!

This morning we awoke to two more dead discus leaving the biggest one on his own looking very seedy indeed.

I am expecting that he will die also in the next day or two and want to know what ma have gone wrong and what to do right next time.

Other facts that may be of use:

*only thing introduced into the tank since we had discus was some plants mounted on driftwood. (All purchased at the local aquarium from tanks whcih had discus in them) These plants all looked healthy but after a began to look seedy also.

*Neon tetras where also dieing at a rate of one every 2 weeks

*Sub gravel filtration - I had some concerns about this as the was not heaps of bubbles coming out of the two bubble things - the water surface was not still however.

*Food -Discus fed on Dried Food (with a picture of discus on the container), frozen brine shrimp and frozen beef hearts (grated).

*Water conditions always seemed perfect, regular water changes and a consistant temprature.

*I noticed very mild algea build ups in the tank (tiny traces) since removing the algea eaters - we did not put any catfish in as we where worried that they would eat the infected poo and become sick also.


Any ideas of what went wrong? Could the plant have introduced disease?
Any ideas on curing the last remaining fish?

Next time round i am thinking of a bare bottom tank with the drift wood plants in side and using an external filter...

I appreciate any feedback and thank you for reading this novel! (I probably should have asked more questions as the events took place rather than wait til now.)

Thanks in advance,
CY

flukes
Tue Apr 13, 2004, 06:01 AM
First of 6 discus is way too many to have in a 3ft tank, at first i thought it might have been ammonia burns because adding 6 discus at once is a big strain on the bio-load, but you said all water pars where in order.
Can i ask the name of the medication you were using?
And also dont add anymore meds to the last discus for a while, if he is still looking sick get some aquariums salt, i think its 1tbl spoon per 40litres, i am not sure you will have to ask someone else for that.

Iam very intrested in what meds you were using.

Ill do some more reseach,
You say it was like white fluff?? Where abouts on the discus was it and did this appear on all of them or just the first one.

Cheers
Scott

DQ
Tue Apr 13, 2004, 10:39 PM
Thanks for your thoughts..

The drug was Aqua masters Fluke and Tapeworm Tablets (Praziquantel)..

The fish where only going to be in the 3 ft tank for about 8 months until the grew a bit larger.

By Aquarium salt to you mean Rock Salt? Does rock salt do the same thing? If so does anyone know the correct amount to use?

Had another death last nght and the final two are looking very grim!

Thanks again.

cy

kevkoi
Wed Apr 14, 2004, 01:05 AM
DQ, u have been exposed to the most common problem in discus.... HEXAMITA. It's such a common problem in discus bought from LFS and pet shops with very few shop owners having the knowledge of how to treat the disease.

The protozoan causing this disease is very prevalent among tropical fish, however doesn't seem to affect them as badly as Discus. In many cases, other fishes can be just cariers without showing any symptoms.

The trouble in Australia is that the medication that is used to treat this disease (Hex) has been pulled off the shelf and is only available under prescription!! This makes it exceptionally hard to treat the disease when the drugs are not freely available.... and many (if not most) LFS owners do not get the prescription to treat their fish prior to selling to the public!! This perpetuates the spread of the disease.... :cry:

This disease is also very infectious and is in my opinion one of the MAIN reasons why most people claim that Discus are difficult fish to keep! (U buy a sick fish and don't have meds to cure it... it dies, u get discouraged and claim it's difficult!)

At SLS, George, Peter and myself are well versed in the use of meds for discus. It also helps that we have a Discus fanatic who also happens to be a vet who comes look at our discus all the time and prescribes us the necessary medications to make DAMN WELL SURE what we sell is disease clear! Also for that matter, we cringe at the idea of taking discus off people's hands because we worry about diseases and when we do, it goes back into the holding room for a 2week isolation and treatment course.

All Discus we import are treated for hex, tape worm and flukes while in quarantine for 2 weeks. At the end of 2 weeks, if there is one fish in the lot that shows signs that it may be carrying something, the whole tank of fish it has been with continues to STAY in quarantine (even after the AQIS officers check off the box that it is "safe". :roll: ) until all is clear.

The advice is if you want to keep discus successfully, ONLY buy from shops that know and care enough to keep them healthy. The saying goes, if you walk up to a tank of discus and they all ain't coming to the front of the tank to greet you (and look like fat greedy pigs!), it ain't going home!!! U start with good stock, u won't have problems.... U get bad stock and u set yourself up for an uphill battle (with 2 hands tied behind your back since the govt has just pulled off the shelf the last available med that can treat Hex!). Set yourself up with a decent size quarantine tank and any fish from a source you are unsure of that u bring back goes thru a 2-3weeks quarantine period in this bare quarantine tank. Once you get a group of discus and fish together that is healthy and stays healthy, the only time u will introduce disease is when you add a new fish or plant or something from a less than reliable source!

.... once hex gets into your system, it is a PAIN to get rid off because it lingers for a long time and it uses other fish as hosts.

Good Luck....

kev

PS: Praziquantel only works on flukes and tapeworm in discus.... Doesn't faze Hexamita protozoan one bit.

DQ
Thu Apr 15, 2004, 06:38 AM
Thanks Kev,

it has been a real pain in the arse to watch the discus slowly pasing away and filling the garden with little graves..

Question - once the final fish has fallen off the perch (which i expect will be very soon) will the plants in the tank along with the gravel still hold traces of the disease?

Is there anything that I will need to do before restocking the tank (maybe from your good self). Should I go with a bare bottom tank next time around or should i leave the gravel..I just dont want to make sure this happen again.

Also how common is it for plants to introduce this evil disease?

Thanks for your advise!

CY

flukes
Thu Apr 15, 2004, 07:06 AM
Kev,
I remember in a post you put a while back about 3 meds that should be carried for treating all major desease.
Could you list the 3 meds and what desease they treat. Also where/if we can get them..
Cheers
Scott

kevkoi
Thu Apr 15, 2004, 08:31 AM
3meds...

1. something for whitespot and velvet - Any propreitry med with active ingredient of malachite green/meth blue. (Can obtain from your LFS)

2. something for tapeworm and flukes - Any tablet that is praziquantel based. (Can obtain from your LFS)

3. something for the dreaded hexamita - Metronidazole tablets.... available from your Doctor or vet by prescription, or from knowledgeble fish shops (under the counter.... sorry had to say that...*edit if inappropriate*)

flukes
Fri Apr 16, 2004, 06:27 AM
Ive got the malachite green/meth blue in a multicure. I was wondering if you can get the praziquantel and metro in pure forms?? i read on another forum of a guy selling packs of prazi but its in the states and i dont think meds can be shipped over seas without some licence.

kevkoi
Fri Apr 16, 2004, 11:02 AM
Praziquantel in pure form... "Worm Rid" bu Aquarium Science.

Metronidazole in pure form..... pharmacy under prescription.

Hawque
Sun Apr 18, 2004, 10:35 PM
I am concerned that my PB has Hexamita... eating well, but looking thin and not growing. It also has been passing some white stringy poos.

I went to my local vet who dispensed the metronidazole for me for $10 dipensing fee and then 30c a tablet. Wasn't sure how many to get so I bought 20 of them.

The tablets are 200mg of metronidazole each.

What I wanted to know was what dosage rate do I apply the medication and how do I feed the tablets to the fish? Do they have to be crushed up in the food?

Thanks for any help with this matter.

Craig

DQ
Mon Apr 19, 2004, 12:20 AM
Hey Craig,

I would think you have the evil heximata disease jusging by the white poo's. I am afraid I dont know what dose or how to administer the drug but am keen to find out after you know.

Be interested to hear how the fish reacts to the drug..

Hope you can dose them soon as it seemed to spread very quickly in my tank! (The last two died on the weekend and now I have a planted tank with no fish in it)

Good Luck


CMY

kevkoi
Mon Apr 19, 2004, 03:29 AM
For treating sick discus...
one metro tablet to 30L of water. (calculate volume of tank, take into account displacement and sump if you have one.)

Treat on day 1, day 2, day 3 (3courses), then do a 30% water change day 5. In crease aeration and decrease feeding (don't want to foul the water). That's what we do.

Tablet dissolves in water. We usually use a net and swish it around the tank a few times to help the tablet break up.

kev

flukes
Mon Apr 19, 2004, 05:47 AM
How harsh is it onthe fish kev?? ever had one pass because it was too strong.?

kevkoi
Mon Apr 19, 2004, 07:12 AM
No... not unless it was going to go anyway. Catch it early and should make full recovery.

kev

Hawque
Mon Apr 19, 2004, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the info...

Started treatment last night and will follow the regime as set out by Kev.

I need 15 tablets each dosing... wish I new that when I bought the tablets the first time as I only got 20. Will have to go back to the vet tonight for some more.

Cheers,

Craig