Advice Needed re WORMING

[marg]

Could someone in the Forum please provide Newbies like myself regarding the worming requirements of Discus?.

I have Dogs and Cats who are wormed regularly every three months which keeps them nice and healthy, and is it a dumb question :oops: for me to ask regarding our Discus?

Perhaps Ladyred, Kevkoi or Proteus could advise us regarding this question, as you all seem pretty learned.

[Merrilyn]

Okay margot, well this is the routine I follow. (BTW there are no dumb questions here. They are all equally important)

All new discus go into the quarantine tank for a minimum of 4 weeks. During that time they are watched. and if they show signs of worms, they are wormed with Praziquantal which treats gill flukes and tape worms.

I have recently begun to think it is important to treat for nematodal parasites as well. And for that you use Levamisole which is sold as a Pig and Poultry wormer.

I routinely treat for worms every six months, juveniles and adults. Breeding pairs are wormed before they go into the breeding tank.

HTH.

[leanne31]

You say that you look for signs of worms in your fish Merrilyn what are the actual signs that you look for :?:

Leanne

[Merrilyn]

You can actually see them passing tape worm segments. These are little packets of worm eggs, and if another fish picks at them, they will become infected too. Other times, they will actually pass the whole worm, and you will see it on the bottom of the tank.

Another sign I look for is a hollow belly despite eating well. They will also get a dose of worm treatment too, and invariably pass worms.

[leanne31]

Thanks for that Merrilyn sometimes mine doing stringy sort of white looking poo do you think thats worms :?: Its not 1 long stringy bit its lots of little stringy pieces if you know what I mean.

Leanne

[Merrilyn]

That sounds like worms to me. Treat with Levamisole Pig and Poultry wormer. Dose rate is 1 ml per 7 litres of tank water.

You can expect them to pass a number of thin round worms about 2.5 cm long.

[kalebjarrod]

I also worm every six months

it was only something i strated about one yaer ago, the fish seem to "bulk up" a bit more

[leanne31]

I've never heard of that is that the same sort of stuff as prazi I guess you wouldnt get that from your lfs.

Leanne

[Merrilyn]

Anywhere they sell horse gear, or feed and grain should have it. It's also sold as a wormer for canaries and budgies in your pet shop, but it's very expensive to buy it that way.

[leanne31]

Thanks Merrilyn I'll give it a try. :lol:

Leanne

[goldfish]

hi guys....i think my discus has worms,,,,,
so what is the exact name of the de-wormer i need to buy from the fish shop?,,and how much would it cost?...i've got a 5x2x2(500lts)

[DR.V]

hi guys....i think my discus has worms,,,,,
so what is the exact name of the de-wormer i need to buy from the fish shop?,,and how much would it cost?...i've got a 5x2x2(500lts)

Just a suggestion : Put the sick fish into a smaller tank ( i use bucket sometimes ). Less volume means less medicine. But its up to you.

Good luck

[goldfish]

does anyone on this forum sell worming medication?

[goldfish]

will
"Aqua Master Fluke & Tapeworm Tablets
For the control of Flukes (monogenetic trematodes) and Tapeworms (cestodes)in ornamentalfresh and saltwater fish"

work in curing worms in discus??

[leanne31]

yes thats the stuff you use. :lol:

[Merrilyn]

Most fish stores will sell a good quality worming preparation. Some will treat for gill fluke as well as tape worm, and others treat round worm and thread worm.

[Littlefish]

The levamisole I get from my local produce store is 'Big.L' pig and poultry wormer by Sykes Vet International. $19.95 for 500 ml.

Fred

[Littlefish]

Just noticed Revkev's post on the other worming thread. I see he's buying Big.L for $15.70 a bottle! Ripped off again!

Fred :cry:

[spencer]

Hi all
I am confused,do I use Levamisole Pig and Poultry wormer or Praziquantal (Aqua master fluke & tapeworm tablets )or something else again from my lfs to worm my discus.?????
Cheers all
max

[Merrilyn]

Hi Max. We use different treatments for different types of worms.

For gill flukes and tape worms, we use praziquantal.

But for round worms and thread worms, you need levamisole.

Fish can have all three types of worms at the same time.

Thread worm will appear as short red strings hanging from the vent of the fish. Tapeworm produces a long white stringy type of dropping that hangs from the vent for a long time.

I'd use Levamisole first, then a week or ten days later, use Aquamaster. That way you will target all three worms, as well as gill flukes.

[goldfish]

Im confused as well,,it feels like theres so much options out there, but i know so little on which one to use.
and whats the difference between gill fluke,tapeworm,round worm and thread worm?? does it look different,different signs of symptons on fish??

any help you be appreciated!thx

[Liverpool_pete]

Ladyred

Do i use the same dosage rate of 1ml per 7ltrs for 'Big.L' pig and poultry wormer or woudl it be different.

[spencer]

Thanks Merrilyn
In regards to the "Big L", do I dose the main tank and leave it in there,or do you move them to another tank and leave them in it for a specified amount of time
Thanks for any help

[spencer]

Does anyone know ,how long to leave the discus in the tank with the 1ml per 7ltrs for 'Big.L' pig and poultry wormer
cheers Max

update, I just found out after a bit of searching...
The treatment I would prefer to use is Levamisole which is a wormer sold for poultry and cage birds. It can be used in the tank at the rate of 1ml per 7 litres of tank water. It's suitable to treat all nematodal parasites. Dose the tank, and leave the fish in there for 3 days without a waterchange. After that, go back to the normal routine of waterchanges.

A follow up treatment may be required

Once again, Ladyred to the rescue, Thankyou

[Matrix]

This a really good thread.

I have found it most helpful in getting my fish back to full health.

[Suc_Sid]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anybody has used the Aqua Master Fluke and Tape Worm Tablets and their opinion of it - it appears to be very widely available, but people seem to be talking of "Big L".

I haven't treated my fish for a while (2 years), mainly because they don't seem to show any signs of worms. Can worms "appear" without the introduction of any new fish? Should I be worming every 6 months if there are no signs of worms and no new fish introduced?

Thanks.

[G-1000]

Sid,

Fish can have worms and be asymptomatic - i.e not show any traits for the illness.

It is advisable to worm them regularly as even a little worm burden will stifle growth.

The tablets you refer to are praziquantal 100mg sold as "aqua master gill flukes and tapeworm"

Big L is levamisole hydrochloride which is used for worms as well.

You need both products to treat for all possibly worm varieties, but DO NOT use them at the same time.

HTH

G

[iro11a]

I brought wardley's para-ex to worm my fish my local aquarium told me it was the best to use for worming and they had never heard of levamisole.I'am doing the right thing or do i need to get any other stuff
Jono

[iro11a]

Just a few questions reguarding worming i used a aquarium type wormer and worked for some my discus they started pooing out the white striny poo but my white swan has had these little red worm things hanging from hes butt hole and havent gone away i went to a produce store today and brought this bird wormer stuff because cant find Big L anywhere.

Active constituents 10mg/ml Levamisole Hydrochoride,equivalent to 8.48mg/ml Levamisole base 2mg/ml Praziquantel.

Just wanted to make sure this would be alright to use at the rate you been talking about at 1ml per 7 litres the lady at the pet shop had no idea?

Cheers jono

[Merrilyn]

Jono be really careful of that bird wormer stuff. A lot of them have glucose of some kind added, and that will produce a huge bacterial bloom in your tank.

I'm not too thrilled about the bord wormer that you bought, because it has Praziquantel in it as well as Levamisole. I've never used the two together with fish, and I'm not sure how it's going to affect them.

If you can posssibly get hold of the Sykes Big L Pig and Poultry wormer, that's the one we use. It has no sugar or glucose, and it will get rid of those thread worms that your White Swan is suffering from. Several online stores sell it, as well as Feed and Grain Merchants in some of the more rural areas.

If you really can't get hold of some, shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

[iro11a]

Thanks LR i will take it back to the shop i went to a full pet shop and thats the only thing they could get that was the close enough i will have a look at a online shop and try and get them to post it to me.

Jono

[ikavia]

I had a worm infestation about 2 years ago, where mainly my mollies had short red threads protruding from the anus. After researching the net I found reference to Nilverm (pig and poultry wormer) but with many different dosages. I ended up going with 20 ml in my 120 litre tank, with the intention to repeat dose about a month later to catch any eggs etc that may not have been effected by the initial dose. However I found it unnecessary to repeat dose as no further sign of worms has been evident.

Perhaps regular dosing isn't such a bad thing however. My theory however is if you don't introduce any worm carrying substances / life-forms into the aquarium, then you shouldn't have too many problems.

[rukkerz11]

Can i treat a planted tank with either of these meds. I have cheap access to Aquamaster. But i guess i can't offer it to anyone on here since i'm not a vendor


Also is it ok to treat with BN catfish in there

[ILLUSN]

I use both Levamisole and Praziquantel in my planted tanks with bristlenoses and they are always fine, bristlenoses even passes a few tape worm segments after worming.

[rukkerz11]

but my tank is 4x2x2 430 lt thats a lot of prazi tabs!

[ILLUSN]

yep mate mine is also a 4x2x2 try this
http://www.aquariumsuppliesaustralia.com.au/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1270 best price I've ever seen for wormrid

[rukkerz11]

I sell fuke and tapeworm _ Aquamaster for only $55.00

so i don't mind using that.

Just set up my tank one month ago and wondering whether i should worm it anyway.

[Professor_J]

Hi, am new to discus - don't actually have any yet, but their home had water added yesterday... so there is a fishy future in sight. :)

Anyway, I assume these meds (Levamisole HCl and praziquantal) kill off the worms and larvae, and then you just vacuum them out when you go to do a water change later on?

Also, once my new fishy friends move in, should I treat them pretty much right away or should I give them a while to get used to the tank before throwing drugs at them?

Cheers,

J

[ILLUSN]

I'd treat them on the first night or following morning

[tanzy]

I was just wondering how Levisimole effects bristlenose catfish, Corydoras and Kuli loaches.

Thanks

Kell

[ILLUSN]

LEVIMENISOLE at 1ml/7L is harmless to bristlenoses, and kulli's, i have both in my tank.

[StonX]

Is there a ratio if I want to soak food with Big L?
How long should I soak them?

[skmdmasud]

Can I use Albendazole or Mebendazole for deworming discus both are for Human consumption.

ALBENDAZOLE
http://www.squarepharma.com.bd/SPL_PI_PDF/Almex.pdf
(Albendazole) is a benzimidazole anthelmintic active against most
nematodes and some cestodes. It is used in the treatment of intestinal
nematodes infections and in higher doses in the treatment of hydatid
disease.
It is used in the treatment of single or mixed intestinal infection caused by
Enterobius vermicularis (Pinworm, Threadworm), Trichuris trichuria
(Whipworm), Ascaris lumbricoides (Roundworm), Ancylostoma duodenale & Necator americanus (Hookworm), Taenia solium & Taenia saginata
(Tapeworm), Strongyloides stercoralis.

MEBENDAZOLE
http://www.squarepharma.com.bd/SPL_PI_PDF/Ermox.pdf
(Mebendazole) is a synthetic derivative of benzimidazole with a
potent anthelmintic activity against the most common nematodes and some cestodes. It is highly effective against ascariasis, enterobiasis, trichuriasis and hookworm infections.
It is used in treatment of pinworm (Enterobius vermicularis),
round worm (Ascaris lumbricoides), hookworm (Ancylostoma duodenale and Necator americanus), whip worm (Trichuris trichiura), tape worm (Taenia
solium and taenia saginata) and threadworm (Strongyloides stercoralis) in
single or mixed infections.


Thanks.

[Merrilyn]

Welcome to the forum skmdmasud :P

Two of our members are vets, so I might leave it up to them to answer.

The reason we recommend Levamisole, especially the Big L brand of pig and poultry wormer, is that it is water soluble and contains no glucose.

Glucose will cause a bacterial bloom in your tank, and possibly kill your fish.

[skmdmasud]

Thanks Merrilyn
medicines like this are almost impossible to find here, may be because they sell it in different names or different ones, poultry is a big business here so there must be dewormers. Albendazole and Mebendazole are easy to find and cheap. Can i keep bacteria bloom with proper filteration.

[swingn]

Just got off the phone with my LFS & they use a drug called Flageil (Unsure of the spelling) which is actually a drug for humans.

Will this do the trick in terms of de-worming discus?

Have not actually dewormed my discus before & after some feed back from a fellow forum member & reading this thread its something that I 100% want to start doing (Awesome & informative thread I must say)

Don't really have any other contacts in regards to getting the specific treatments that have been recomended in this tread. Can anyone point me in the right direction - I'm in Sydney.

[lpiasente]

From what I have read flagyl is an atibiotic used for treating hex. Big L and prazi are for worming. Just have another read through this thread and it tells you all about it.

[swingn]

From what I have read flagyl is an atibiotic used for treating hex. Big L and prazi are for worming. Just have another read through this thread and it tells you all about it.

No worries, so my LFS is feeding me some BS by the sounds of it. I still actually have some flagyl at home, do you think it would be worth running anyway?... I don't like filling my tank full of chemicals if it is not needed, so I'm leaning towards no... But I'll take my advice from the experts :D

I know the products I'm after, but I had no luck in tracking them down. I have also e-mail Xtreme Aquariums, but have had no response as yet, but I only e-mailed them at COB yesterday.

Assuming Xtreme can't help me out, does anyone know of where I can buy the specific products in Sydney?

[lpiasente]

Well I'm not sure about the flagyl, it could be used for worming but I haven't read that anywhere yet. You can get the prazi at lps the big L comes from a rural supplies, horse shop.

[swingn]

Well I'm not sure about the flagyl, it could be used for worming but I haven't read that anywhere yet. You can get the prazi at lps the big L comes from a rural supplies, horse shop.

The FS i go to said it's what they use to de-worm their fish, but from what I've read in this thread, it doesn't look like it'll do the trick or it is not a very widely used product for fish (It is after all for humans).

Will continue to track down a LFS that carries praziquantal :D

You'll have to excuse my ignorance :P Does anyone have contact details for a rural supplies shop in Sydney? Perhaps a website that I can purchase off?

[lpiasente]

Sorry, I am in Victoria so I have no idea.

[swingn]

Sorry, I am in Victoria so I have no idea.

No worries mate :)

I've been told that you can order Big L from a website... For the life of me I have not been able to find it listed anywhere! Could someone point me in the right direction?

[swingn]

Me thinks I found a place :D :

http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?productid=16807&cat=390&bestseller

Anyone ordered from this place before?

[Xtreme]

Here you go,

http://www.2easy.com.au/shop/article.php?article=2090&cat=672

:D

[swingn]

Here you go,

http://www.2easy.com.au/shop/article.php?article=2090&cat=672

:D

Cheers mate :!:

:D

[BigDaddyAdo]

Me thinks I found a place :D :

http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?productid=16807&cat=390&bestseller

Anyone ordered from this place before?


Thas where i got mine....


Ado

[DIY]

I actually buy this one from the same place as it's more concentrated for the same price - dosage is 1ml per 14litres instead of 1ml per 7litres
http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?productid=16808&cat=397&page=1

[swingn]

Got my Big L in the mail this morning & just wanted to clarify a few things regarding treatment (Did some searching through this thread, found some answers, but I just want to make sure I do everything correctly)...

My tank is approx 150L. At 1ml per 7 L, I'll will be adding 21ml of Big L to the tank. Obviously, no carbon will be left in the filter & I'm planning on doing a good size water change the day before I begin treatment.

The treatment goes for approx 7 days. Does this mean I'm dosing the tank everyday with the same dosage (As you would with Melafix for example)?

I noticed someone mentioned doing a water change after 3 days? Is this nessesary or will I be safe doing a good water change after the treatment period?

Sorry if the calibur of my questions is somewhat basic, but I just want to ensure I'm doing the right thing :D

Cheers

[Merrilyn]

Hi swingn.

They're all good questions. Levamisole is a once only treatment, so do your waterchange, then add the correct dose on day one, and that's it. Don't add any further product.

On day 3 do a big waterchange being careful to thoroughly vacuum the gravel to remove any expelled worms and eggs.

On day 7 repeat the dose (21 ml in your size tank) and again, gravel vac on day 3 and that's it. Treatment finished.

[Old Dave]

I just bought my Sykes Big L, over the counter, about $21 for 500ml.

PetBarn at Wollongong.

Here's a link so you can find your local store. (Hope that's OK?).
http://www.petbarn.com.au/index.php

You might like to ring first to check if it is in stock, or you can ask them to order it in for you. (Search on Levimenisole)

Too Easy! :lol: :lol:

1ml per 7litres, after a water change you say?
I'll give it a go.

thanks

Old Dave

[Bad Inferno]

I did a dose yesterday however forgot to turn my UV off. ANy idea if UV will render BigL useless ? I'll do it again in 7 days as sugegsted however was wondering if UV would effect it.

rob

[Old Dave]

My guess is that the UV is there to kill live things like parasites and bacteria?? etc.

I don't think UV (especially if it isn't a high power one) will hurt at all, otherwise we would be treating tanks in the dark.

JMO,

Old Dave

[cory1]

What a helpful topic...flagyl is used to kill a variety of worms in humans including Giardia not sure if that's spelt correctly
It can make you feel very sick when taking it,i talk from experience..the dosage would have to be a lot lower than for humans that's for sure :shock:

[TW]

Hi all

I'd like to Big L & Prazi worming treatment on my apisto in QT. They share QT with some cardinal tetras & harley rasboras.

Are they any issues with the cardinals & rasboras in regard to the worming treatment?

thanks in advance.

[ILLUSN]

cardinals survived big L and prazi in my tanks no problem, never kept rasboras though so icant say,

as for the UV question, UV will ionise the levimenisole and make it useless turn off UV when ever administering any treatment.

as for flagyl, that's the brand name for metronidazole, the minimum effective dose in aquaria is 25mg/L or mixed into food at 1g/100g w/w higher doses of metro are being used as flagellets become more and more resistant i believe overseas they are using up to 100mg/L, personally i think this dose can do longterm damage the internal organs of the fish.

[RDavies]

Will these worming medicines kill off my snails and Cherry Shrimps? I also have various other catfish, SAEs and Bettas in the tank.

[ILLUSN]

yes they will harm both snails and shrimp

[RDavies]

OK, I just set up a quarantine tank for snails and shrimp. Should I also separate the Royal Wiptail, bristlenose, SAE, Oto?

[Will1983]

is it worth adding a small dosage of wormer to a beefheart mix to provide some long term deterrent?

[Hollowman]

is it worth adding a small dosage of wormer to a beefheart mix to provide some long term deterrent?

No, only treat when you see symptoms, as Illusn said, worms are building up immunity, this will only add to the problem.

[Will1983]

cheers Hollowman

where in UK you from?
are we the only 2 UK members on here?


Will

[Hollowman]

cheers Hollowman

where in UK you from?
are we the only 2 UK members on here?


Will
I am in Dorset, near Dorchester :wink:

[rex82]

how many people notice thier fish go a bit skittish when treated with levamisol?

[syxx]

Just though i'd add a bit of a funny story.
i bought 2 beautiful wild green discus a couple of years ago, they were already packed in bags so when i got them home i realised that they were really skinny and had worms, i proceeded to treat them with prazi, then fed them copious amounts of black worms to get them healthy again :) there are good and bad versions of everything in life.

[krislewis3]

tape worms are treated with prazi
flagelettes are treated with metro
round worms are treated with lavamocele

In other words...if your fish has tape worms, Lavamocele will not cure your fish.

you need to have a diagnosis of the worm type, to get the correct medication that will cure you fish. Can you give us more symptoms?

[discus4u]

New to this excellent forum. I have a question in the treatment of gill flukes.

I have a 1200 liter tank with plants, substrate, discus & many tetras. The tank has a large sump. I currently use Kusuri (monthly), water changes at 50% per week, and gravel syphoning. Fish eat very well, water is good, poo is black, however the discus flash more than I would like.

My query regards the correct meds:
Trichlorfon label notes ‘temp must be below 27 degrees’ - improbable in Qld this time of year - rules this out!
Praziquantel label notes ‘cannot be used with tetras’ - rules this out!

How do I get around this? Will reduced doses work, when & how often, and will this work better than Kusuri? Or am I being over the top?

I have a few thousand dollars’ worth of fish and do not want to risk a catastrophe.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.