gill fluke eradication

[sayid]

Hi every one ;
The story is that i have had gill fluke at various degrees as long as long as i remember , well i put up with it and when it becomes too much i usually treat the tank with pp at the rate of 2mg/liter and it reduces the number and makes the fish breath better till next time,well this time i like to eradicate fluke if i can ( big big job ) !!!!!
about 8 weeks ago i decided to do this using praziquantel so i treated the whole tank ( BB with a few plant pot ) 100 mg / 20 liter day 1, 2 , 3 and rest day 4,5 , 6, and 7 for 3 weeks , that means 9 treatment over 21 days to break the cycle of eggs and fluke both ,well i thought it has worked but i saw one act of flashing and now my fish at least 2 of them breath fast about 120 per minute .
I know that Andrew Soh in his book mentions treating Q tank with pp 4 hours on day1 , 4 , 8 ,12 , 16 and rest in between in display tank ,i know that hollowman is very familiar with andrew' s work .
Steve if you have any views regarding getting rid of gill fluke for good using pp please let me know especially the detail implementation of keeping the filter alive .i have 15 adult fish and 12 corys , q tank 80 liter , disp tank 200 l ,disp tank 500 l
Please let me know what you think.
Thanks
Sayid

[Hollowman]

Hi Sayid,

I have done pp in the past and it does prove to be very effective at the levels you have quoted, haha, I also use Andrew's advice. The trouble is, is that it seems however many times you try to eradicate them they have a way of evading completely. I have however never been blighted with it really badly, I guess my water changes keep on top of it and bb tanks. 40-50% every second day.

For filters of course it depends on what type you are using Sayid. I primarily use Hughie Hung sponge filters. I have many in the tanksso can start up a new tank when ever I need. This is where I think the one fluke hides though. It is a battle that can't really be won, just managed in my opinion.

[sayid]

Thanks for getting back so quickly .
I think by memory ,andrews method was
. put the fish in q tank with 2mg/l pp for4 hours in active form ( pink colour )
. in the mean time nuke the main tank with 10mg/l pp with net ,tube ,accessories in the tank but minus the filter media.
. clean the glass ,under the ledge of tank etc.
.change 90% water with clean water add prime and salt 1 tspper 40 l
.move the fish in to clean tank .
. rest the fish with small feed till next treatment on day4.
. repeat this for 5 treatment .
How does this sound , i unfortunately don't have his book to refer back,

[Hollowman]

Sounds about right. I don't have my book to hand either as I am in the Philippines right now.

I can however let you k ow that Andrew has just put his first book on Amazon for digital download if that helps.

[sayid]

Thanks Steve for getting back , i am going to see if i can get hold of a hard copy , BTW i found your photo with Andrew back in 2008 at a British discus show now i can put photo to the face , hope you enjoy your vacation .
Sayid

[Hollowman]

Wow.. how did you find that? Lol

[aquanow]

Hi sayid,

sorry to resurrect this old post, but i'm very interested in the process of eradicate fluke in a display tank and wonder if you've achieved this and in what way?(pp vs prazi?) because i'm in a very similar situation and have treated my 6ft tank afew times with prazi(very costly) which seems to work at time. but now 3 months later I can see more and more sign of flashing and scratching which is not good. I think they have returned again with enough population to start showing sign. =(

Regards
George

[Hollowman]

Hi George,

What is your water change regime?

[aquanow]

Hi Hollowman,

I have a drip system which currently drip about 380-400L per week and on top of that I perform weekly sand vac then refill with 150L aged water. but to manage water quality i use filter sock in my sump and change it every second day and i have a UV and purigen reactor(water chemistry is normally ammonia0, nitrite0, nitrate5-10 depends on how often i feed during that week). fish are healthy and eating like pig but every now and then there will be one or 2 that start to spit out food which i normally isolate them and use 36c heat treatment for 5 days which will fix the problem(I think that's caused by internal parasites). it's just the sign of flashing and scraping concerns me and make me feel like those nasty flukes are building up and ready to strike and the heat treatment doesn't stop the flashing/scratching.

btw, i'm also thinking of trying fish food mix in with prazi but i haven't seen any post doing it this way so i'm not sure if this is plausible or not. so may be you could offer some advice. I'm thinking to mix 400mg(prazi)/100gfood(still looking for the best way to mix these to make sure they are effective) then feed them 7days then repeat 3days a week for at least 6 rounds. this way it will kill any fluke that's in contact with fish and eventually will break their 2 weeks cycle, the advantage of doing it this way is we don't need to use too many prazi tables. because to treat 700L of water with prazi is very costly.

Regards
George

[Hollowman]

Hi George,

Quite a set up you have there. Trying to get completely fluke free is a bit of a dream for me, no matter how hard you try, it is normally a case of keeping their levels down to a minimum and keeping the fish comfortable. I have used PP in the past which has worked well. The thing with PP is safety of the fish while dosing and keeping your filter alive. If you PP the tank and disconnect your filters, you will still have flukes in the filters ready to come out and find a host, PP your filters and then you have to start again with a new cycle. Using PP always wipe down the glass as they hold a lot of nasty parasites. Prazi in food is possible but can be released before it is eaten, or the fish might not like the taste and spit it out anyway.

Sorry not to be too much help, I just see it as a control thing and not eradication.

H

[aquanow]

Hi hollowman

thank you for sharing your experience and yes having a fluke free display tank is everyone's dream I think. =) so for now I'm after a more cost effective way to treat 6ft tank and hopefully it doesn't take too much effort either then we could just repeat every 6month to keep the number down, but if using above treatment protocol as described by sayid would get rid of it then I would like to give that a try so let's hope sayid is still around to tell us the outcome.
and yes I think you are right, those fussy eater will no doubt spit the medicated food out.

btw I just found something called kusuri wormer plus which looks like a pretty cost effective product to control fluke and it sounds pretty safe for display tank. just wondering if we can still source this in australia?

Regards
George

[sayid]

Hi George;
I have sent you PM regarding the fluke ,i basically have followed Andrew soh method and so far it has been a success but as Steve mentioned it is difficult to eradicate but you can control , regarding Kusuri ,i have used it but again it is expensive and for successful treatment you need to break the cycle of the fluke but having said that it is available in Australia .

[Sug]

June 1 at 11:40 PM ·
My fish has had a really bad case of flukes that has been hard to fight. A friend helped me perform an experiment under the microscope and thought I'd share the results. Now i understand why they have been so hard, basically impossible, to kick. Here is what we did:
On 4 separate slides we put a sample with flukes and eggs. None of the treatment was watered down, straight product to each slide, obviously a much stronger solution than would be used in any aquarium or even dip. Here are the results:

1. BLEACH. Does not kill these things or their eggs. It does stun them. Yes im talking straight bleach. This is what I've been using and thought was sanitizing my equipment. Guess not.

2. PRAZIPRO. This did not kill the flukes or their eggs.

3. FRITZ COPPERSAFE This does kill the flukes. But not their eggs.

4. SEACHEM PARAGUARD. Killed the flukes and their eggs immediatly.

then i put some in the "hospital tank" with my fish and the flukes/ eggs as directed, waited 2 mins and put under the scope, they were all dead within 5 mins or less.

If you ever catch a bad case of flukes, try Paraguard. These are microscopic parasites. I'm no fish expert, by the time i figured out what was going on, admittedly it was probably too late.

I've been fighting these things off for a year now. I've been to the point of thinking they were gone and continuing to medicate to be sure more than once. Very had to fight off. I've been contemplating euthanizing my fish on several occasions and each time my fish bounces back to the point where i think she has a chance,then the cycle begins again.

It may be to the point where they are in her, and there is no chance of fighting them because of that. Its been a year. This is no kind of life, but she keeps fighting. I've tried so many things. Spent way too much money. I've never changed so much water -- its really exhausting. I've been at my wits end so many times and kept trying.

Any thoughts? I don't want to euthanize her. But i don't want her to suffer anymore. I'm also wary that anything could help cure her at this point.
Any thoughts?

I want to clean everything i have with paraguard, do the dips, and give her another shot. Yes again. I know
I've said it a few times. The reason is mainly because she is still hanging in there and i just bought the paraguard.

[bellason]

I'm still combating gill fluke 6 months down the line!
Are you 100% certain it's a gill fluke?
Have you taken a mucus scrape or done a gill biopsy?
I ran a course of sterazin with little to no improvement then after a month tried a double course one week apart again with little to no improvement.
I switched to fluke solve treated for 3 weeks and had good improvement but not complete loss of symptoms.
A month on I am treated with fluke solve again but for 4 weeks this time. I'm 2 weeks in and the fish are practically back to normal.
Flukes are notoriously hard to combat because of their life cycle and the eggs are not affected by meds until they hatch into larvae.
You could try giving your platy salt baths twice a day for a few days. I did this with my most affected fish and they appeared to get some relief from it.