Bullied Discus

[Sabrina]

Hi all,
I have a juvenile blue diamond that has been bullied by all the other discus in my main tank. I took him out to rest him in the QT tank for a week, thinking he had recovered i put him back in the main tank. Right away they were bulling him again, i am unsure of the last time he ate, he looks skinny and temples are pushed in and his dark in color. He is not sick, he has been bullied to the point he cant eat. Right now he is on the sand sideways breathing heavy, he does not look well at all. What do i do?

[Sabrina]

Can i force feed him a pea? I dont know what to do :(

[Hollowman]

How many discus are there in the tank you are adding him to? Discus are, or can be very vicious to each other and have a hierarchy. The smallest or weakest will tend to get bullied. If you keep him in the same tank, try feeding in different ends of the tank, so at least he gets a fighting chance of eating alone, or with minimal bullying. If it still gets a bad rap, you might have to permanently move him and get him fat again before reintroducing him to the main tank. It's tough to see I know.

[Sabrina]

There were 5 other discus in the main tank. I have him in quarantine at the moment, and i also had a new discus in the QT tank too but even the new one belted little blue up. So i removed the new one and put him in the main tank with the others. This morning little blue is up off the sand and swimming around slowly, i think he just tried to eat something. He is in a 100L tank with only cory catfish now, i hope he makes it. I have decided to leave him there permanently if he survives like you said, and fatten him up before i even think about placing him back in the main tank with those other nasty buggers. Thank you :)

[Hollowman]

Corys' make good tankmates for discus, so it won't feel threatened or lonely. You are doing ok Sabrina.

[Sabrina]

Thank you Steve, I have also removed the bully in the main tank and put her in a 2 foot time out tank. I sat and watched her bully the others away from plants and decor, obviously she thought she owned the tank and all the things in it. So she can stay in the 2 foot until she learns some manners!

[Hollowman]

Another trick I learned was to re-arrange the tank. Putting the main bully back into a tank that is not familiar sometimes calms things down a bit. Worth a try if all else fails

[Sabrina]

Yes i thought about that Steve, i will post a photo of my tank as it stand today and could you suggest if i have to much decor in it? I could remove the barrel and bells and just have the drift wood and plants? But i wonder then if they have no where to hide from each other they might get worse? Since taking the bully out, for some reason my totally placid discus has gone mad and is chasing all the others around now! Why would this happen?
21240

[Sabrina]

Ok i made a decision while sitting here looking at the tank, i took out the bells and barrel, now there is only plants and driftwood in there. It looks a bit bear but lets see if this works! This is what it looks like now...
21241

[sayid]

Hi Sabrina;
Sorry to hear about the little BD ,look i under stand ,it a tough one ,Steve has rightly suggested the main points ,the only other possibility which might help is to get a plastic egg shell divider ( it is a plastic divider with little square holes 1 cm x 1 cm that you can put it right any where in the tank ) you see the issue is that discus are schooling fish so they need each other to feel secure and eat ,the divider might help BD to feel secure but stop the bully to physically come into contact with him ,just a thought ,i don't know your temp but 1 degree c lower might reduce every fish activity but you should not go less than 27 c .hope this helps.
Sayid

[Sabrina]

Hi Sayid,
Thank you for the suggestions. It looks like little blue is dying, he is face down in the sand in the QT tank, i just gave him a salt bath, its made no difference to him really. His been bullied so badly that he didnt eat for i dont know how long. Im so upset my other discus did this, i feel like i failed him :(

[Hollowman]

Tank looked good in the first photo with the items in, and as good without. Now the big bully has gone, the next in line has become dominant. Take him out and the next will do the same. Now the tank is rearranged you could put them all back together or do what sayid suggested. As I said before bullying is tough to watch. It does sometimes work itself out, sometimes not.

[Hollowman]

Hi Sayid,
Thank you for the suggestions. It looks like little blue is dying, he is face down in the sand in the QT tank, i just gave him a salt bath, its made no difference to him really. His been bullied so badly that he didnt eat for i dont know how long. Im so upset my other discus did this, i feel like i failed him :(
Sad to hear, when a fish gets bullied, discus can succumb to drastic ill health, this is caused by lack or eating and the loss of apitite allows disease and internal parasites to take over, it is a spiral that only goes one way. I think if you try and medicate it might do more harm than good and if he is really thin across the eyes/forehead then it is probably too late already. Can you get a photo of him Sabrina? For now, clean water and raise the temp to see if that encourages him to want to eat.

[Sabrina]

Hi Steve,
I did place the bully back in the main tank now that i have changed it all around. They all seem to be doing ok now, still a little chasing but not like it was.
On little blue, he is terribly thin, i didn't notice it was so bad. I dont want to take a photo of him, he looks terrible :(
Im going to try to force feed him, if i can..

[Hollowman]

If you think he is not going to make it, do you know how to use clove oil?

[sayid]

Sabrina ; don't blame your self ,you have done the best you could do .unfortunately raising discus is unpredictable in the best of time even if you do every thing by the book .
sayid

[Sabrina]

Yes Steve, i have used clove oil before to put them to sleep. But last time i used it, it burnt the fishes skin, well at least thats what it looked like, so now im scared to use it. But he is suffering so i have to do something. I tried force feeding him with tweezers, it was hopeless, he kept spitting it out and it was so difficult to get it in his mouth. I will have to put him to sleep, i cant watch it anymore.
Thank you Sayid, but i have lost a few now, its so hard with such small discus. Im never buying a small one again.

Update: He is asleep forever now. RIP Little Blue :(

[Hollowman]

Sorry to hear that Sabrina. Like Sayid said, you did your best

[Sabrina]

Thank you Steve, im really sad i lost another one, poor little thing. Makes you want to give it up for good. Thank you both for the help though

[Hollowman]

No, don't give up. Fatten up the ones you have left, once they get bigger and you prove to yourself you can do it that's when the fun begins.

[Sabrina]

Thank u again. I have taken Tango the bully out of the tank yet again, she is being ridiculous. This video is of her, the orange pidgeon blood chasing the whole tank, its never ending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa91MeUGENk

[sayid]

Sorry for your loss Sabrina, my advice is do not replace him on impulse and as Steve said put all your effort in fattening up the rest of the discus also don't hate Tango ,it not his fault he is discus not a human they just go through their pecking order ,you have one less fish so theoretically the quality of your water should change for better ,as a matter of interest was that an aluminium plant that i saw in your tank ,it is in remarkable condition since it is a cold water plant .
Any way pat your self on the back ,you tried your best.
Sayid

[Sabrina]

Thank u Sayid, Im not going to replace him, well i sort of did already, i placed my neighbors large Angel fish in the tank, all is well though. The tank is in harmony without Tango in there, i feel like crying, if only i took her out weeks ago i might still have little blue. Yes that is an aluminum plant, its super, i didnt know it was a cold water plant though, it may not live long then, only had it a week. I dont know what to do with Tango, she is in the QT tank, in the naughty corner. To be honest, i dont think i will ever put her back in the main tank im so upset about it all.

[Hollowman]

Not sure thatputting in the Angel was a good idea, with no QT ... too late now, but watch out for infection.

[Sabrina]

The Angel is my neighbors Steve, he has had her for 4-5 months, she has no illnesses.. I have always looked after her since he got her so i know the fish well.

[ken31cayman]

Thank you Steve, im really sad i lost another one, poor little thing. Makes you want to give it up for good. Thank you both for the help though

Sabrina,

So sorry to hear about this. You really did all that could be done.

Regarding giving up, I know the feeling. This past weekend my solid blue scorpion of the pair that was getting ready to mate jumped out of a crack in the top lid I left open after feeding the night before. Found him dried up on the floor. I was literally shocked the next morning; all my fish are so peaceful they never dart or 'jump'. And how did he find one small crack in the lid of my 180gal to jump out? It's unreal.

And my yellow checkboard died the next day. I've only witnessed him eat maybe 4 bites in the time since I got my fish and new tank three weeks ago. He was slowly deteriorating over this time but I felt all I could do is keep providing a pristine environment & conditions and good food.

My smaller Red Ruby is still not eating that much and is still rather sluggish. There is very little bullying in my tank, they've all gotten along really well and let the less active ones eat by their sides all the time.

The good news is that my two Altum Floras have livened up and are eating more. My larger Red Ruby, patterned Blue Scorpion, and White Butterfly are still doing really good, eating a lot, and have grown slightly in the short time I've had them.

In my very limited experience so far with Discus I'm starting to get the feeling that in each 'group' of Discus you get, not all of them will thrive. I think it might be more common that some in each group don't make it.

I get my second batch of five 5" discus next week so hopefully these will all be healthy and I will end up with a nice group of flourishing, beautiful Discus.

[Sabrina]

Hi Ken,

You sound like you have had a bit of trouble like me. I cant believe your discus jumped out of that crack! I think you are right though, in every group there is going to be one that gets sick or has problems, its not our fault its just nature taking its course. In my case it was inexperience mostly and still is but i am trying very hard to do the right things. I am most certainly going to invest in bigger size discus in the future, i dont ever want juvies again, although i still have a few to try and raise up. Thank you for your post and good luck with your fish hun :)

[ken31cayman]

Hi Sabrina,

I think the larger Discus are more mature, mine still chase/bully each other sometimes but not nearly as much as the first group of eight 2.5" ones I had in my 55gal. Sold these the same day I got my current group.

My current group (what's left of them) seem to be getting pretty strong, all except for my smaller Red Ruby as I mentioned above. He's eating a little here and there and semi-hangs with the group but during feedings he hides at first before meekly poking around to look for what food is left.

[Sabrina]

Hi Ken,
I have to agree, the bigger of the small ones bullies the others. But when i just had my 2 big ones by themselves they didn't bully each other. I think if mine were all the same size i would be good to go but they vary in size so much is the problem. And one of them is in jail in the 2 foot tank by herself with two little mini mollies as inmates, she is a tank terrorist and can not be housed with other discus, she was caught red handed bulling 2 of the smaller discus to the brink of death, i had to put them to sleep because of her. So now because of all this bulling i have 3 tanks with discus in them sorted into size in the hope they will survive. My 2 bigger ones in the 4 foot, 2 smaller ones in the 100 liter tank and Tango the bully in a 2 foot until i decide what i will do with her. I dont want to sell her so she becomes someone esles problem, i feel sorry for her but i cant risk her killing another discus. Perhaps i will place her in the 4 foot with the 2 big ones and see what happens at some stage in the future. Right now i am just setting up the 4 foot again as i had a snail out break in it, so hopefully everything will be ok from here. :D

[ken31cayman]

Sabrina,
I can see the difficulty in getting them all the same size, which helps tremendously. I tried the first time, but even when succesful some have growth spurts and after that the bigger ones continue to get bigger and the gap increases. I'm experiencing that with my fish now.

Oh well, I'll see what happens when I receive the five more next week. I ordered:
2 Mercury Blue Angels 5"-6"
1 Golden San Merah 4.5"-5"
1 Galaxy Turquoise 4.5"-5"
1 Red Dragon 5"-6"

You know, I used to keep SA cichlids, piranhas, north american fish (bass, perch, crappie) for years, but that was many years ago. Just started the hobby again now and jumped straight to Discus:) I've seen several people on different forums say Discus are not hard to keep once you get the hang of it. But compared to most other hobby fish Discus keeping is labor-intensive and requires much more expertise. By this definition yes they are hard to keep. It's a steep learning curve involved. Are they beautiful and worth it all? Oh yes:)

[Sabrina]

Haha yes they are beautiful and worth it! You will have to show us some photos of your new ones Ken! Seem everyone is getting new ones except me :(

[ken31cayman]

Haha yes they are beautiful and worth it! You will have to show us some photos of your new ones Ken! Seem everyone is getting new ones except me :(

Hi Sabrina,

Well I hear the Discus hobby/addiction is one where you never 'stop getting new ones':) I'm hoping this order is my last for awhile. Since I have to import them I go through this big rigamarole each time with the import permit application, USDA health cert, freight forwarder, and biting my fingernails up until the cargo plane arrives and I get the fish. I'm hoping I end up with a nice group here. I will definitely post the new pics.

When I had my eight smaller Discus in a 55gal I quickly realized I wanted a bigger tank with more mature Discus if I was going to enjoy the hobby.

[ken31cayman]

Hi Ken,
I have to agree, the bigger of the small ones bullies the others. But when i just had my 2 big ones by themselves they didn't bully each other. I think if mine were all the same size i would be good to go but they vary in size so much is the problem. And one of them is in jail in the 2 foot tank by herself with two little mini mollies as inmates, she is a tank terrorist and can not be housed with other discus, she was caught red handed bulling 2 of the smaller discus to the brink of death, i had to put them to sleep because of her. So now because of all this bulling i have 3 tanks with discus in them sorted into size in the hope they will survive. My 2 bigger ones in the 4 foot, 2 smaller ones in the 100 liter tank and Tango the bully in a 2 foot until i decide what i will do with her. I dont want to sell her so she becomes someone esles problem, i feel sorry for her but i cant risk her killing another discus. Perhaps i will place her in the 4 foot with the 2 big ones and see what happens at some stage in the future. Right now i am just setting up the 4 foot again as i had a snail out break in it, so hopefully everything will be ok from here. :D

Sabrina,

I have had some recent success with my slow/picky eaters that weren't eating much. I heard about AL's Freeze Dried Black Worms being extremely popular so I finally ordered some last week. I'd previously tried California freeze dried black worms for a while with no success (but my fish never get sick of Beef Heart...) so I was a bit skeptical. But I received AL's FDBW last week Thursday and they immediately loved it, especially my more picky eaters.

My method: I still drop a couple of cubes of Beef Heart first for good eaters, then I stick two cubes of Al's FDBW to opposite ends of the tank. You've got to soak these in water for about ten seconds first before then they stick really well to the tank wall.

My Altum Floras, which are smaller than my 'mad eaters', are now getting bellies full of these FDBW's, and eating more beef heart too. My smaller Red Ruby is now eating much more and is being more active! This really is amazing. AL's FDBWs seemed to perk his interest in food and now he is actively eating and looks like a healthy fish for the first time.

I definitely recommend AL's FDBWs, they are apparently much better than California FDBWs.

[Sabrina]

Hi Ken,
Cant wait to see more pics of your fish. I havnt heard of that AL blood worms so i will have to look into it! Im glad to hear your little one is eating well once again, i have a small discus that i dont think is eating well, it never comes up for feeding time, its shy. I will have to work on getting it to come eat something before it gets sick. I currently feed mine Australian freeze dried black worms, beef heart, frozen foods and another discus specific food. My 2 big ones are going great and believe it or not i just put the big bully back in with them last night as i felt so sorry for her being alone. Time will tell if she learnt her lesson and shes leaves the other 2 big ones alone.... Fingers crossed!!

[sayid]

Hi Ken,
Cant wait to see more pics of your fish. I havnt heard of that AL blood worms so i will have to look into it! Im glad to hear your little one is eating well once again, i have a small discus that i dont think is eating well, it never comes up for feeding time, its shy. I will have to work on getting it to come eat something before it gets sick. I currently feed mine Australian freeze dried black worms, beef heart, frozen foods and another discus specific food. My 2 big ones are going great and believe it or not i just put the big bully back in with them last night as i felt so sorry for her being alone. Time will tell if she learnt her lesson and shes leaves the other 2 big ones alone.... Fingers crossed!!
AL frozen dried black worm FDBW is the same as australian FDBW and it's an excellent food for fussy eaters.
sayid

[ken31cayman]

Hi Ken,
Cant wait to see more pics of your fish. I havnt heard of that AL blood worms so i will have to look into it! Im glad to hear your little one is eating well once again, i have a small discus that i dont think is eating well, it never comes up for feeding time, its shy. I will have to work on getting it to come eat something before it gets sick. I currently feed mine Australian freeze dried black worms, beef heart, frozen foods and another discus specific food. My 2 big ones are going great and believe it or not i just put the big bully back in with them last night as i felt so sorry for her being alone. Time will tell if she learnt her lesson and shes leaves the other 2 big ones alone.... Fingers crossed!!

Hi Sabrina,

AL's FDBWs are blackworms and, as Sayid pointed out, the same as Austrailian FD Black Worms.

I receive my new five tomorrow, did a post with pics on Simply a few days ago. I'll copy/paste that post in my main post here right now http://www.discusforums.com/forum/showthread.php?24768-ordered-a-150-gallon-tank-for-my-Discus

Kenny

[Sabrina]

Thanks Ken i went to the link and seen them! Good luck with the new ones and keep us posted ok :D