ordered a 150 gallon tank for my Discus

[ken31cayman]

I ordered a 150gallon 'Clear for Life Deluxe' setup from fishtanksdirect.com to put my discus in, they are currently in a 55 gallon.

I'm brand new to Discus after buying a 55 gallon + 6 juvenile Discus three weeks ago. This is my first aquarium in over 20 years, though I had 7 aquariums of various sizes before that time.

My Discus:
3 Red Marlboro (3 inches)
2 Blue Diamond (2.75 inches)
1 Pigeon Blood (3 inches)

In their current 55 gallon:
I feed them 4-5 times a day and they all eat really well except for the 2 Blue Diamonds who are a smidgen smaller than the rest and so get bullied a bit and don't get quite as much food as they rest. I do 50% water changes 3 times per week. I have 2.5 inches coarse gravel substrate and for filtration I have an over-tank power filter that came with the tank, and added a second one to increase filtration. Also have a power head in the tank for more oxygen. Tankmates are 2 cory catfish, 2 plecos, and 2 rosy barbs. For decorations I have three artificial plants and three artificial driftwood decorations.
QUESTION: does all of the above sound ok? I welcome any suggestions/advice.

for the new 150 gallon:
After three weeks of keeping the 6 Discus in the 55 gallon tank I realize I want to make a really nice home for them. The tank I ordered comes with a double overflow sump filter setup, the salesman told me this will handle ever a saltwater setup.
Here are my plans for the 150 gallon:
Substrate: 3 inches of pool filter sand.
Decorations: driftwood & rocks I am collecting at the beach. I live in the Cayman Islands and I've found quite a few nice pieces so far, but I've never done this before so I plan to soak these in bleach for a day, then in water for about 4 weeks (i'll change the water every 3 days) before I introduce them to the tank. Any advice regarding this is appreciated. I also plan on adding a couple of artificial plants to the tank.

I'm really excited to put my Discus in their new home once I get it. Any advice on this, or my current 55 gallon, is much appreciated.

Kenny

[Sabrina]

Hi Ken,
Welcome to the world of Discus!
First i see some things id like to mention to you, those rosy barbs will nip at the discus and should be removed asap. The cory catfish are great but they need to be in a school of at least 6 or they will stress out and die mostly.
Please dont move the Discus into the new tank right away. Your 55 gallon would still be cycling as it is i believe. Did you use Quick start or Stability in the tank when you first got it? They are beneficial bacteria for your tank and helps cycle the tank much faster. Also do you have a freshwater test kit like API master test kit? This tests the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate....
I will try to send you a mail now, please check your in box :)

[Sabrina]

Also pelcos are know to latch onto discus and eat the discus slime coats.. Just a warning.. The cory cats are fine though, i have them in with mine, nothing else though...

[sayid]

Hi Kenny;
Welcome to the forum ,i would go with every thing that Sabrina has suggested ,the only other things which comes to mind is the gravel at 2.5 inch ,this would attract waste and food and that would contribute to deterioration of your water quality. I would suggest BB tank at least till your discus become adults .This also helps your discus to grow bigger and quicker than otherwise .
Enjoy the experience.

[ken31cayman]

Hi Ken,
Welcome to the world of Discus!
First i see some things id like to mention to you, those rosy barbs will nip at the discus and should be removed asap. The cory catfish are great but they need to be in a school of at least 6 or they will stress out and die mostly.
Please dont move the Discus into the new tank right away. Your 55 gallon would still be cycling as it is i believe. Did you use Quick start or Stability in the tank when you first got it? They are beneficial bacteria for your tank and helps cycle the tank much faster. Also do you have a freshwater test kit like API master test kit? This tests the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate....
I will try to send you a mail now, please check your in box :)

Hi Sabrina,

Thanks for you post. I've been reading about Discus care some since my post and made some changes:

-Firstly I changed my order to a 180 gallon setup which should arrive to me in 2-3 more weeks.
-In my current 55gal I'm doing 70% daily water changes.
-I removed most of the gravel so it's now just a very thin layer, maybe 1/2" or less.
-I added a fluval canister filter.
-RE: Cycling: I only learned about this after I purchased & setup the 55gal, which I believe is now very close to being cycled. I have an Ammonia and Nitrite tests currently, but actually have an API master test kit on order. I ordered Fluval Cycle which I'll use in the 180gal.
-RE: other fish in the tank: I found out I don't have Rosy Barbs but what I have are some type of rose-colored tetras. I actually had to return a tiny German Blue Ram back to the LPS because it was chasing and stressing my Discus lol:)

Thanks again for all your advice.
Kenny

[ken31cayman]

Hi Kenny;
Welcome to the forum ,i would go with every thing that Sabrina has suggested ,the only other things which comes to mind is the gravel at 2.5 inch ,this would attract waste and food and that would contribute to deterioration of your water quality. I would suggest BB tank at least till your discus become adults .This also helps your discus to grow bigger and quicker than otherwise .
Enjoy the experience.

Hi Sayid:
Yes, after I cleaned my gravel and saw all the accumulated waste I took most of it out. Now it's just a very thin layer. Also increased my daily wc. I really would like my Discus to grow into healthy good looking fish.
Kenny

[sayid]

Hi Sayid:
Yes, after I cleaned my gravel and saw all the accumulated waste I took most of it out. Now it's just a very thin layer. Also increased my daily wc. I really would like my Discus to grow into healthy good looking fish.
Kenny
hi Kenny
Why don't you send some pictures of your tank ,that way it is much easier to comment and pinpoint on different issues other wise it is a little of shooting in the dark.
sayid

[Sabrina]

Hi Ken,
70% daily water change are too much, i know water changes for discus are good but 70% is over the top. You would be loosing all the good bacteria and the fish would be stressed. 25-40% is much better, and you can also leave it for a day and do every other day.
The cheapest place to buy the API master test kit is on ebay :)
I agree with sayid, try to upload some pics of your tank and discus..
Your very welcome!

[Hollowman]

Remember that cycling a tank is nothing to do with the water. It is to do with creating nitrifying bacteria in your filter. You need to test for ammonia and nitrate nitrite. You must seed the cycle (feed the bacteria) until you have no nitrates or ammonia after feeding your filter.

[ken31cayman]

Hi All,

I wanted to post an update to my post here. Note that I posted a similar post on SimplyDiscus in the tank journals section.
The Discus are ten I purchased from DiscusUSA (which are 'Tony Tan Discus'). They are all about 5". He apparently hand picked some of his best fish for my order and included what may be a probable blue scorpion pair. I'm not an expert but they look pretty good to me so I'm pleased.

The ten new fish are in a 180 gallon acrylic. The tank is drilled with side overflows, the sump came as part of the package - it is 30gallons, which is small but I guess a bigger one couldn't fit in the stand. I'm also running a Fluval FX6 with 2 trays of Purigen. The Fluval's input and output hoses are in the sump.

The driftwood is actually cut from the roots of a dead Casuarina tree. There is a stretch of beach here where the maritime authority cut down these trees years ago due to storm risk, leaving the stumps with roots exposed.

21267
21268
21269
21270
21271

[Sabrina]

Hi Ken, looks amazing. Your tank is super and the fish are stunning! Such nice colors and loving that driftwood, well done :)

[Hollowman]

Looks sweet, the wood is lovely too. Nice setup. Let's hope you have a pair of BS's then the fun really begins ;-)

[ken31cayman]

Hi Ken, looks amazing. Your tank is super and the fish are stunning! Such nice colors and loving that driftwood, well done :)

Hi Sabrina:)

Thanks, unfortunately 2 fish in the order had a rough journey, hung on for a few days but both eventually died leaving me with 8. The breeder took responsibility due to type of packing and credited me these two. So I ordered 5 more fish which will reach me on 24-Nov:
2 Mercury Blue Angels
1 Red Dragon
1 Galaxy Turquois
1 Golden San Merah

I'll then have 13 Discus and may sell 1 or 2 eventually that aren't thriving in my tank, so I hope to have 11-12 Discus in the tank as a final number.

Kenny

[ken31cayman]

Looks sweet, the wood is lovely too. Nice setup. Let's hope you have a pair of BS's then the fun really begins ;-)

Thanks Hollowman,

Last 2 days my two blue scorpions have been hanging out together alot by one particular spot of driftwood and shimmying together quite often. They aren't being aggressive (yet) towards the others, but I'm a little worried. I'm not prepared if they do mate. I know I can just let nature take it's course in the tank if they spawn, but its the aggression that I'm afraid will upset the tank. Any ideas?
I keep my temp at 82F
PH: 7.4
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
Ammonia: 0
WC: 25% x 5 days, 60% x 2 days.

Kenny

[Sabrina]

Oh sorry to hear that Ken, its so devastating when they dont make it. Glad the owner refunded you too. Thats lots of discus Ken, i only have 6 and its a handful for me and i have lost a few being new to discus. Thank goodness for forums like these in my situation, having so much trouble and being able to get help is great. I wish you the best with these beautiful fish you have, and 13 is an unlucky number, you better sell 1 lol Loved the photos, please send more when your new stock arrive :)

[ken31cayman]

Oh sorry to hear that Ken, its so devastating when they dont make it. Glad the owner refunded you too. Thats lots of discus Ken, i only have 6 and its a handful for me and i have lost a few being new to discus. Thank goodness for forums like these in my situation, having so much trouble and being able to get help is great. I wish you the best with these beautiful fish you have, and 13 is an unlucky number, you better sell 1 lol Loved the photos, please send more when your new stock arrive :)

#13 you're right I hadn't thought of that! I will send more photos after the next group is here and all are settled.

[Hollowman]

Hi Ken,

In a community tanks you will find that 'if' the two scorpions do pair and lay eggs then the chances of having either any eggs or wrigglers left will be slim to zero. It does sound like you have a pair if they are shimmying together. If you can get good full side on photos of them both I can try and give my opinion on the sexes of them.
It's a shame you had a couple arrive in a bad way, but good on your supplier to bear responsibility, I will look forward to seeing the new ones when you get them.
Good luck

[ken31cayman]

Hi Ken,

In a community tanks you will find that 'if' the two scorpions do pair and lay eggs then the chances of having either any eggs or wrigglers left will be slim to zero. It does sound like you have a pair if they are shimmying together. If you can get good full side on photos of them both I can try and give my opinion on the sexes of them.
It's a shame you had a couple arrive in a bad way, but good on your supplier to bear responsibility, I will look forward to seeing the new ones when you get them.
Good luck

Hi Hollowman:

I've attached pics of the two - one is 'patterned' the other is 'solid blue', sorry don't have a better pic of the solid. What I'm really concerned about is the agression toward the other fish if they mate. Note that they are both 5" so I assume their dorsal fins haven't fully matured yet.

21272
21273
21274

Kenny

[Hollowman]

I wouldn't worry about aggression, they will only try and fend off the fish that get too close and soon return to tend the eggs, fanning them with their fins to keep water flow over them and keep them clean. The parents can also start eating their own eggs should they get too anxious, but don't worry, it's a natural reaction.
As for male or female, from the photos it's tough.. although I will guess at the solid being the male (for now lol) Wait to see which one lays eggs.

One other thing I notice is your temperature (for me) seems a little cool. I would turn up to 83 - 84 as a minimum. It will keep their metabolism higher and keep them more active and happy.

[ken31cayman]

I wouldn't worry about aggression, they will only try and fend off the fish that get too close and soon return to tend the eggs, fanning them with their fins to keep water flow over them and keep them clean. The parents can also start eating their own eggs should they get too anxious, but don't worry, it's a natural reaction.
As for male or female, from the photos it's tough.. although I will guess at the solid being the male (for now lol) Wait to see which one lays eggs.

One other thing I notice is your temperature (for me) seems a little cool. I would turn up to 83 - 84 as a minimum. It will keep their metabolism higher and keep them more active and happy.

Thanks for letting me know. I read a post where a spawning pair kept all the other fish in the tank corners, but maybe this was in a comparatively smaller tank.

Would raising the temp to 84 possibly cause them to become more aggressive?

I've been thankful that all my Discus get along really well compared to my first group of six (sold these) which I had in a 55 gallon. In that group one discus would continually chase the others and also keep them from eating. This rotated a couple of times where the bully changed to a different fish. These Discus were smaller though (2.5" - 3") so maybe they're more aggressive at the smaller size?

Kenny

[Hollowman]

Raising the temperature will make them happier, being too cold will allow parasites and illness to come on far quicker. Keeping them to a normal 83-84 is a minimum really. It will not make them more aggressive but will make them more active, and make them have a better appetite and fend off illness.

Fish need space and I think keeping the smaller group in a restrictive tank probably caused the tension and bullying. Yes, it is horrible to see and affects all the fish, there are a few things you can do to try and avoid aggression but in the end if you take the bully out, the next in line becomes the boss. Sub adults like you have are normally mature enough to get on with each other, again, the right temperature helps too.

hth

[ken31cayman]

Raising the temperature will make them happier, being too cold will allow parasites and illness to come on far quicker. Keeping them to a normal 83-84 is a minimum really. It will not make them more aggressive but will make them more active, and make them have a better appetite and fend off illness.

Fish need space and I think keeping the smaller group in a restrictive tank probably caused the tension and bullying. Yes, it is horrible to see and affects all the fish, there are a few things you can do to try and avoid aggression but in the end if you take the bully out, the next in line becomes the boss. Sub adults like you have are normally mature enough to get on with each other, again, the right temperature helps too.

hth

Thanks for the info, I've learned a great deal in the 2 months since I've been keeping Discus but I lack the experience. I used to keep mostly south american cichlids, etc., for years, but I can honestly say Discus are a whole new ballgame. I think few new Discus owners realize this at first, I know I didn't.

Thanks again,
Kenny

[Hollowman]

Two really good books to get are from Andrew Soh, 'The Naked Truth' is his first book, followed by 'Discus - Problems and Solutions' If you can find them you won't need anything else, he has pretty much covered it. Also he is a personal buddy of mine, so I can always get an answer to a difficult question.

[sayid]

Hi Kenny ;
Blue scorpion is my favorite discus ,you guys are lucky where you have access to American retailers of discus ,they have variety and cheaper prices than Australia ,any way congrats on a lovely tank and good looking fish and if you got some baby scorpion discus please send it to me in here LOL, good luck.
Sayid

[ken31cayman]

Two really good books to get are from Andrew Soh, 'The Naked Truth' is his first book, followed by 'Discus - Problems and Solutions' If you can find them you won't need anything else, he has pretty much covered it. Also he is a personal buddy of mine, so I can always get an answer to a difficult question.

Thank you Hollowman, I will take a look at these books. I did watch that 'how to keep Discus' video from Al Sabetta, and this was really good. In my limited time with Discus I've seen conflicting information and advice, so it was nice to finally have information I could feel confident about using.

[ken31cayman]

Hi Kenny ;
Blue scorpion is my favorite discus ,you guys are lucky where you have access to American retailers of discus ,they have variety and cheaper prices than Australia ,any way congrats on a lovely tank and good looking fish and if you got some baby scorpion discus please send it to me in here LOL, good luck.
Sayid

Wow I'm not sure a beginner like myself is up to that task... but I do have a second tank - 55 gallon, which I know is not optimal for breeding purposes, but I may just give it a go:) I guess it will also depend on how my other Discus are doing as I'm still at the stage where I'm still watching everything carefully and learning.

That would be cool, I'll let you know if I get any little ones:)

Question: if my scorpions are a pair and do mate, how long do they remain a pair? For example, would they then spawn again every 2 months, or every year...?

[Hollowman]

Al Sabetta, is also a font of knowledge.

[sayid]

After wriggler finish with mum and that or eaten by other fish in community tank or transferred to a growing tank the pair don,t waist much time spawning, i have not got personal experience in this section and Steve or Matt would be able to elaborate more.

[Hollowman]

They can spawn again after two weeks sometimes.

[ken31cayman]

After wriggler finish with mum and that or eaten by other fish in community tank or transferred to a growing tank the pair don,t waist much time spawning, i have not got personal experience in this section and Steve or Matt would be able to elaborate more.

The pair continue to pose next to each other with heads tilted downwards and shimmying, though not nearly as much today, and I don't see them cleaning the piece of wood they were hanging around anymore. I guess I'll continue to watch them.

[ken31cayman]

They can spawn again after two weeks sometimes.

Ok well I guess once they mate they'll continue to do so given the right conditions. I'll need to read up on this then.

[ken31cayman]

Hi all,

Update: I should receive five more fish from DiscusUSA in two days (Thursday). He sent me below pics & video of these in his holding/shipping prep tank:

Two Mercury Blue Angels 5"-6"
One Galaxy Turquoise 4.5"-5"
One Red Dragon 5"-6"
One Golden San Merah 4.5"-5"

21287
21288
21289
21290

facebook video: https://www.facebook.com/kennyaparsons/videos/vb.1475686182/10211150012134250/?type=2&theater&notif_t=video_processed&notif_id=1479821162797750

Of the ten fish from my first batch received ~4 weeks ago, only six remain:

Two Yellow Checkboards died within 3 days of ammonia poisoning due to flaw in packing.
One Yellow Checkboard never ate and died in 2 weeks (possible ammonia poisoning?).
One Blue Diamond jumped out of a crack I left in the tank lid the night before after feeding. I couldn't believe it the next morning. No more cracks from now on. This one was almost certainly getting ready to mate with my other Blue Diamond.

David at DiscusUSA credited me three fish which I applied to my current order.

[Sabrina]

Amazing Ken! Love the blue background on the tank, your water is clear as and fish are just lovely! Well done :D

[Sabrina]

That red melon looks just like mine!

[ken31cayman]

That red melon looks just like mine!

Will get them tomorrow mid-afternoon, can't wait. Just did a more thorough tank cleaning (filters, tank walls, sand, driftwood, etc) + 70% water change, so I'm ready to receive them!

[ken31cayman]

Ok, received the new five and put them in the tank yesterday @ 3pm. My White Butterfly was giving these (larger) new fish a hard time (bullying) as soon as I put them in. I put salt in the water, no food, lights off.

Issue: my new 6" Red Dragon's left gill is flared as he breathes, right gill looks normal. I'm told this usually indicates the gill is injured, could have been from the netting when packing or somewhere along the line being shipped to me. Is there any treatment I can/should give to help him heal?

This morning the Red Dragon (gill is still flared), and the other new fish ate a couple bites of bloodworms, which is a good sign. I'll post pics after they're settled.

Kenny

[sayid]

minor issues like this happens from time to time ,the best medication is what you have done ,i.e adding rock salt and patience, congratulation.

[Sabrina]

Awesome news on the new fish Ken.. I hope the bulling settles down and your red dragon feels better soon :) pics!

[ken31cayman]

minor issues like this happens from time to time ,the best medication is what you have done ,i.e adding rock salt and patience, congratulation.

Hi Sayid,

I'm re-adding any salt taken out when doing water changes. My Red Dragon's gill is still flared, but otherwise he's eaten at all three meals today, swimming and acting normal. I'll give it a few days with the salt and hopefully he'll be fine. Thanks.

Kenny

[ken31cayman]

Awesome news on the new fish Ken.. I hope the bulling settles down and your red dragon feels better soon :) pics!

The bullying has settled right down, all fish are eating and swimming actively. The new ones have settled right in so quickly, almost like they've been in the tank from the beginning. And it's like the old ones are happy they're there. I'm thinking that only six Discus in the 180gal was too few fish, now eleven fish there and they're schooling together, none are isolating anymore.

Don't get me wrong there is some dominant displays to establish the pecking order, but these are not stressing any of the fish. Very pleased so far. I especially love my two new Mercury Blues (blues are my favorite:))

EDIT: I'll post pics soon, it looks like the new fishes' color is starting to come in a little more, just want to wait until they're ready.

Kenny

[Sabrina]

Sounds great Ken! My melon is my favorite color, so red and vibrant. Cant wait to see pics when they are ready :)

[sayid]

It is fine Kenny ,i use to have a PB who had a flared gill and that was the way he was and he was happy with that ,give it a few more days other wise just enjoy your fish life is too short to worry needlessly .
sayid

[ken31cayman]

It is fine Kenny ,i use to have a PB who had a flared gill and that was the way he was and he was happy with that ,give it a few more days other wise just enjoy your fish life is too short to worry needlessly .
sayid

Hi Sayid,

So I take it that your PB's flared gill never got better.

1. Do you know what originally caused your PB's flared gill? (netting injury, fighting, etc)
2. Did it ever improve at all, if so around how much did it improve? How long did that improvement take?
3. Let me know everything you did to treat him?
4. Did you sell him or did he die? How long did he live?

Thanks,
Kenny

[sayid]

hi kenny ;
that was a long time ago that i had my PB,but it is too early to make a firm prediction on your fish ,if it is a fighting or netting injury it might take months to heal ,a lot of discus are born with a " short gill cover " which are suppose to be culled by the breeder and some time one fish escapes through ,also most discus have some extra " skin like " flesh which protrude from the gill which is quite normal . all the above cases do not require any medication ,some in case of injuries it may get solved over time and some in case of genetics does not .
my PB died after 2 years .
HTH
sayid

[ken31cayman]

Hi Sayid:

Thanks for the info. I now have a time frame in mind that it might heal in. If it doesn't it's fine as he/she's still a beautiful fish.

Thanks,
Kenny

[ken31cayman]

Sounds great Ken! My melon is my favorite color, so red and vibrant. Cant wait to see pics when they are ready :)

Hi Sabrina,

My fish are all doing really well, they all look so comfortable and all eating really well. I've contracted my daughter to take the pics as soon as she's able, she's so busy these days with school I'm thinking in the next couple of days. It's better if she does it, even I don't even want to look at the pics I take:)

Kenny

[ken31cayman]

Ok, getting impatient waiting for my daughter to take photos of my new fish, so here are a few until she does. They're not the best. The new five: two 5.5" Mercury Blues, one 6" Red Dragon, one 4.5" Galaxy Turquioise, and one 4" San Merah. They acclimated in just a few days and are just as friendly & bold as the previous six that were already there. One of the Mercury Blues and my Blue Scorpion are constantly doing the mating dance and cleaning a section of driftwood.

21291
21294
21292
21293
21295

[Sabrina]

Beautiful Ken! I love the Blues but gee that Melon is nice. I love love that driftwood, my bits are tiny compared. They are a nice size too, only 2 of mine are that big. Wonderful job Ken :D

[Sabrina]

Thought i would show you my 2 Ken, hope you dont mind :)
2129621297212982129921300

[ken31cayman]

Hi Sabrina:

Your Melon is beautiful, I love the color. Is the other a Red Turq? That one is going to be especially beautiful when full grown imo. How big are they right now?

Kenny

[ken31cayman]

Beautiful Ken! I love the Blues but gee that Melon is nice. I love love that driftwood, my bits are tiny compared. They are a nice size too, only 2 of mine are that big. Wonderful job Ken :D

RE: driftwood: I didn't realize it at the time but i guess I lucked out when I got this. It develops some sort of slimy algae so I take it out and clean it every two weeks.

[Sabrina]

Hi Sabrina:

Your Melon is beautiful, I love the color. Is the other a Red Turq? That one is going to be especially beautiful when full grown imo. How big are they right now?

Kenny

Thank you Ken! Yes she is a Red Turq i beleive.. I think they are 3 inches at the moment, i can get a ruler near them, they spook to much.. I also think they are stunted so perhaps they might not grow anymore :(

[Sabrina]

RE: driftwood: I didn't realize it at the time but i guess I lucked out when I got this. It develops some sort of slimy algae so I take it out and clean it every two weeks.
Mine get slim and algae on them too Ken, i think thats normal. I dont wash mine i leave it for the fish to pick at, they love pecking at the slim on the dirftwood and the air pipe hoses lol