Possible Illness?

[Sabrina]

Hi all,
Trouble, one of my Discus that i have had for 6 weeks in the photos below might have an illness. I have put him back in QT tank for the moment until i can get a clear idea of what might be wrong with him. I had a Discus breeder look at a photo of him today and he said Trouble might have TB (Tuberculosis). Now i have spent most of the day reading about TB and im quite literally terrified that he might have it, his eyes are poking out from his body a bit, his color is terrible but he does not have any signs of sores or pimples or anything else and he has been eating well. Now he has been in with my other Discus who are healthy, i know if he has TB it would have already infected the other fish and my tank, so i am now VERY worried about my fish. Does anyone here know if it might be TB and what and where do i go from here? I am terrified please help!
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[Hollowman]

oh dear...... this fish looks very sick. The shop owner is trying to scare you into buying all sorts of meds, and he really doesn't know what the problem is. For me, I think the fish looks emaciated, thin, and of course badly stunted. Yes the eyes look a little bulged, but this is also to do with the fact that it is painfully thin.

I would put in a qt tank with lots of clean water. You can try a broad spectrum AB (antibiotic) which will cure the bulging eyes, but for a fish to be so thin, I am sure it has an infestation of worms. For this you need to get some Metro and treat accordingly

https://discus.co/popeye/
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/emaciated_discus.shtml

[Sabrina]

Oh no, i didnt know he was so sick :(
I feel horrible!! My poor baby ugh this is dreadful.
Ok he is in QT tank. I will go and get what i need to treat him tomorrow, i will read the links you put here too, thank you so much Hollowman!
Oh god, i hope he makes it, the poor little thing!
I will update here tomorrow what i do, even though i dont know what im doing :o

[Hollowman]

Sabrina, I don't really hold up much hope for it if I am being honest. This is why choosing from a great breeder is recommended. Being brutally honest, most local fish shops don't have a clue about discus and what is good or bad. Sure keeping them is a learning curve, but you will learn. I highly recommend Andrew Soh's books, Google them. He is a discus guru and illness in discus is described in The Naked Truth, his first book.

Good luck with your fish, but in the end, if it is not eating, then you have to do the right thing for it. Buy some clove oil from a health food shop as using this is a humane way to euthanaise a fish.

[Sabrina]

Hi Hollowman,
The thing is he was eating right up until i took him out last night and put him in the QT tank. Now he is in QT i think he will become depressed and not eat again because he has been taken away from his friends.
Now, i have just got home from the pet store, they gave me Tri-Sulfa antibiotics and Fluke & Tapeworm treatments. I rang everywhere looking for the Metro and no pet store had it so i rang a vet and they cant give it out without seeing the fish and that would have cost me $70 let alone for the Metro too. So i have now dosed the QT tank with what i was given and i am hoping like anything it works! I dont want to put him to sleep :(
I know of the cloves oil yes, i have had to put a few fish to sleep in my fish keeping time..
So the QT tank is all white with snow now from the meds, he looks unhappy but i have high hopes he will make it, his a little fighter!

[sayid]

Hi Sabrina ;
i am so sorry for your fish ,Holloman is right ,the drug of choice is metro but unfortunately it is a prescription drug ,i have an adult fish with the same problem who refuses to eat and i have not got much hope for him ,even metro have not have any effect .
Regarding the breeder who mentioned TB first of all he can't look at picture and diagnose TB and secondly Tri-sulfa or fluke tablets are not the ans ware for TB ,infact there is no cure for TB , the pet stores will sell you all the medication to make money and they have no idea how to cure diseases .
You have done the right thing and put him in Q tank ,increase the temp to 32 c and 30 % water change every day ,feed him his favorite food (blood worm ) and keep your finger crossed .
HTH

[Sabrina]

Hi Sayid,
Thank you very much, i have raised the temp and i cant do water changes yet as i have the medications i was given in the tank, friday i need to do a 25% water change, and saturday i need to dose the antibiotics again, then next wedneday the worming tablets again and then friday 50% water change. The pet store advised me to take the carbon out of the filter and just put sponges in there, i did so. Apparently the carbon takes away the meds... Perhaps he might need to see a vet in the end, i will try everything i can to save him. I have hope! I will try feeding him flakes and blood worms, he likes them thank you :)

[Sabrina]

Hi guys,
i have done some more research and it seems more like Hexamitiasis that he has than anything else. Which is more along the lines of what Hollowman suggested earlier in this thread. And yes Metro is the drug of choice to treat it, though here in Australia unless i go to a vet i can not get it. So i have to continue on the path of antibiotics and fluke/tapeworm tablets i have at hand and hope like crazy they work for him, if not i guess its going to be a trip to the vets for us to get the metro. Its a shame metro is so hard to get, or so expensive i should say. Wish us luck!

[Sabrina]

This is a video i took of him after i dosed the tank with medicines on wednesday. He was completely black :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQJ7-zdYdCA

[Hollowman]

Sabrina, he looks proper sick. If it were me I know what I would do. Spending more time/money on this fish is only prolonging it's suffering.

[sayid]

hi sabrina ;
I have to agree with Holloman ,he does not look good.

[Sabrina]

Hi Hollowman,
He is sick yes, but he has no sores, he is swimming around the tank freely, he is not sitting on the bottom or gasping at the top or floundering around. He is just skinny and black in color. Putting him to sleep would be killing him, it wouldn't be humane at all. Im upset that you would suggest this :(
I don't wont him to suffer, im trying to help him as much as i can, he is depressed from being taken away from the others and yes sick too but i don't think i should kill him :(

[Hollowman]

Clove oil is the humane way. They fall asleep and pass painlessly. I am sorry if this upsets you, but I will only tell you the truth.

You know, yesterday I went to a local fish shop close to where I live. There were 6 juvie discus in a tank and 2 in another tank. All badly stunted, dark and sick. They wanted £25 each. I would have culled them all. No keen fish keeper should ever be offered these culls. They are sold because people don't know any different and of course after spending so much, and they fall sick (sicker) the shop then suggests all sorts of meds to fix a problem they allow in the first place. At least you are here now Sabrina so you can learn what is good and what not to touch in the future. Unfortunately, your little sick fish has no happy future.

[Sabrina]

I am going to give Trouble 1 week to come good, in a weeks time the last of the medication will be used in the QT tank. I appreciate what you are saying but i just cant put him to sleep while he is still swimming around freely mid range in the tank, i feel it would be cruel not to give him a chance at surviving through this. I think what if he does pull through, then i would have killed him for no reason. Its such a hard choice to make when you love your fish so dearly, and on the other hand you don't want them to suffer either :(
Yes i am here now and i do appreciate the help a lot, im not trying to ignore your advice, just trying to save my fish. If i want to buy more Discus in the future im going to try to find a breeder close to where i live, i have decided not to buy anymore from the pet stores here as not one of my current stock is of good breeding. But, i still adore them just the same.
Thank you Hollowman for your help

[Hollowman]

I understand Sabrina. It is not easy sometimes. You will know when it is time. I really hope you can pull him through. Just keep us updated.

[Sabrina]

Thank you, and i will keep updates on how he is going...

[Sabrina]

Its a sad night here, Trouble was put to sleep just now. He is no longer suffering, heart breaking to have to do this.
Thank you both for your help with this
RIP Trouble

[sayid]

Sorry to hear your loss,it's not an easy decision to do but i am sure you did the right thing .RIP Trouble

[Sabrina]

Thank you Sayid, his out of suffering now

[Hollowman]

I am very sorry to hear that Sabrina. I am sure it was a tough decision to make, I have done the same. It is better to end suffering for the fish and for you.

The good that has come out of this thread is that you will not make the same mistake again. It is sometimes a tough learning curve, one that you now know first hand. You can look forward now to finding some great fish from a good breeder. Remember, think twice and even then be prepared to walk away from a fish. Never buy a fish because you think you can get it back to health, it is already too late. Buy quality, buy healthy round fat fish.

RIP Trouble

[Sabrina]

Thank you Hollowman,
Yes i have learned a lot now and hopefully my other discus will be ok from here. Once in the container he did not struggle once, he just went to sleep. Poor little fella

[Hollowman]

I can't say any more Sabrna, just that it was a shame, but well done for doing the best you could.

On the flip side, I was searching for Discus in Austrailia and found this site in Sydney http://www.sydneydiscusworld.com/ they have quality fish (look at eye ratio and shape) so perhaps you can source from them in the future. I will look for more to give options.

[Sabrina]

Thank you for the link, i will have a look through the site now. Sydney is far from where i am, i dont know how well they travel or if i could fly with them, it would be an expensive fish lol