Wanting to clarify some things

[Sabrina]

Hi all, i am new to Discus fish. Brought my first one 1 month ago, but sadly he passed away (RIP Disco).
The reason i joined up here is because this is a Discus specific site, i am on another fish site which has been helpful as well but i thought it wouldn't hurt to branch out, the more info the better i hope. I believe i lost my first Discus because i had no experience with them, i have been fish keeping for almost 12 months now with other small species like rosy barbs, guppies, mollies, mountain minnows, cory cats, dwarf gourami and betta fighters. Which i have been very successful with.
Its a long story but i currently have 3 other discus, i read that they liked their own company so i brought more, and then ended up with bullies. Currently i have 2 discus in my 120L tank whom get along pretty well most of the time, they actually stick up for themselves so its going ok, they have 6 cory cats in their tank with them. The other discus is a lone male in a 2 foot tank, he is a huge bully and i had great difficulty with him in the main 120L tank with the others, so i got him his own tank knowing full well they like to be in schools of at least 5 discus. He has 3 small fish in with him for company, but i don't think he is happy still and it breaks my heart :( When i buy my new larger tank i hope to introduce him back into the community with the other Discus..
I have some questions i would like to clarify if possible please:
How much room do i need for 1 Discus to live happily? Liters per Discus..
Is it true they need to be in such large schools to be happy? 5-10 Discus..
Is it necessary to do more than 1-2 water changes a week if the tank is cycled?
Is it true that blood worms are like crack to Discus?
Thank you in advance :)

[xrboy_85]

Hi Sabrina


Well i am no pro by any means but have been in the discus world for 6 years now, all i can really suggest is read read read read,, there is a world of info on here and the sticky's mostly have what you need to know,,,

normally you would work on 40-50 ltrs/ discus
yes they do like to have a happy little family of 5 or more
water changes are a must due to their diet ( i run a 500ltr show tank in our office and i change it 30-40% daily if not every 2nd day time permitting)
blood worms are a bit like that but i would recommend using a feeding cone so they don't make a huge mess, other foods you must incorporate are like discus dinner (mix of beef heart, garlic,worms, shrimp etc,)
i also highly recommend a good pellet like sera granules ( i turn my filter off when i feed so they get trained to know its dinner time, and also it allows you to not end up with excess food rotting in your filter, then i water change so you can suck out the mess,

I'm sure a lot would agree with me, discuss shouldn't be mixed with things like guppies mollies gouramis and fish from asia,

also you need to get familiar with all the diseases and treatment methods and medications like ice,velvet, hith, and basic gill fluke treatment and stuff

and have meds on hand al the time,
levamisole
epsom salts
praziquantal
metronidazole
and i keep pertassium permanganate ( condese crystals)


This may seem like a overload, i did try to summarise but it isn't a species to be taken lightly

Hope this is helpful though
Justin

[xrboy_85]

oh and make sure you have really good filtration, i run an Fluvial FX5 and its been a great filter, also anything ahem is great, some eheims even have built in heaters which is cool, your other fish won't like being at 30 degrees much, also if you need help just post pics of the fish etc and also your water specs like
ph
nitrate
nitrite
ammonia
KH and GH
phosphate

you will get help much faster if anyone has data to work with

[Sabrina]

Hi Justin!
Thank you for the information, esp the meds i need to have on hand, i will write those down.
I will elaborate a bit more for you:
I had other fish, guppies, mollies etc but they have all been sold since i have now got the discus. The only other fish i have in with my Discus now are cory catfish which are great and some celcbrex rainbows which im not happy with.
In regards to food for my Discus i have a large variety of Discus specific foods like you mentioned. Freeze dried, frozen, pellets etc and yes i
have a feeding cone.
My tanks temps are at 27c steady. My water specs on both tanks are:
PH 7.6
High Range PH 7.4
Ammonia 0.25 (i took the last tests after feeding!)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5.0
KH 89.5
GH 179
Yes the ph is higher than they like but i have been told not to play with the ph up and down powders at all, and that they will be
fine in this ph range. The KH and GH are also too high i know, but are slowly coming down. I will try to work out how to post pics
here and add them in another post :)

[Sabrina]

21173211742117521176

[Sabrina]

2117721178

[xrboy_85]

Yeh good work,, the only thing i would suggest is bringing that temp up to 30, you will find you will have less troubles with diseases like white spot etc with the temp higher and the fish will feed better etc, unless you have a UV steriliser then you could run 28 i suppose, mind you i like the piece of mind of having a uv anyway just because. Keep up the good work :)

[Sabrina]

Hi Justin,
Thanks, i might go with the uv lights if i can find one to fit my tanks :)

[Hollowman]

UV lights are not necessary, just up the temp to 30.

Looking at the two fish you have, the RT looks quite stunted. The eye ratio is not good and the bridge on the nose is not a good sign at all.The other one, not sure how to describe the strain also shows signs of stunting, but might get better as it grows.

[Sabrina]

Hi Hollowman :)
Yes i was aware they are not of good breeding, as in i posted pics of them on another fish site and was told of their stunted looks. I have only had them 1 month and as i said i am new to Discus keeping so im not sure what to look for in regards to stunt, nose bridge etc. I didnt post a pic of the male i have, i will post it here for you to see him. Is he also stunted or has problems?
21179

[Hollowman]

Sabrina,

It is fairly common for people to buy small fish that are already stunted. This is because of a few reasons,
1, the seller had bought stock from a local supplier who knocks out home bred discus but doesn't know what he is doing.
2, the seller knows no different.
3, the seller will take advantage of the 'new to discus' buyer.

Now you are here in this forum you will gain the knowledge you need to make more informed decisions about buying 'good' stock.
I did make a thread a few years ago about stunting, but I can't find it now. If I find it I will post, it had a photo of eye size in relation to the body of the fish. Basically, the eye should fit 7 times vertically in a line through the eye top to bottom. Stunted fish show a rugby ball shape and large eyes and the ratio is far less. I will search more. And update here.

[Sabrina]

Thank you Hollowman :)
I will be more careful in the future. I pick up my new 4 foot long 160L tank for my Discus tomorrow, so im a bit excited tonight.
I am sure they will have fun in this much bigger tank and i will turn the heat up to perhaps 28c as i am having no issues with
them getting sick, i dont want to have them at the extreme end of their heat tolerance. I will post pics of the new tank once i
have set it up some what :)

[Hollowman]

Sabrina,

How are you going to filtrate the new tank? If you are using a new filter of course there is no biological filtration so you must make sure you use some existing mature filter media. 28C is the lowest I would go to for Discus, you say ok now, but so fast you 'can' get problems, so observe well ok.

[Sabrina]

Hi,
Yes the new tank has a new filter built in along the top of the tank under the hood and the pump for it hangs in the tank. I do know of using existing mature media to kick start the cycle and i also use Seachem Stability and Prime in my tanks. Dont worry, the fish wont be going in the tank until it is cycled.. Once its been up and running a few days i will add some Cory Catfish to it so this will also help the tank mature before the Discus go in.. Here are some photos of me setting the tank up now, at 5am in the morning mind you lol
2118021181211822118321184

[Hollowman]

Looks good, clean and easy to maintain. Please make sure your tank filter is well seeded just to save problems later ok. Looks like you are doing ok though, be good to see how it develops

[Sabrina]

Thank you :)
Its coming along now, looks great with the plants in it! Thought i am unsure how high to fill the water in it, it doesn't have a water line or instructions in the booklet about the water level..
21185

[Hollowman]

I would go to the top, so you can't see the lights shining through the front.

[Sabrina]

Hi Hollowman,
I seem to have a problem with the brand new heater already. Its a 200 watt Eheim heater, i brought this heater specifically because
its the top of the range and is very accurate. I also brought the strip thermometer. I have had the heater in the tank for over 24 hours now
and its set at 28c, the strip thermo is reading 26c, so i put a glass thermo in there and that says 27c. The heater packaging say 300-400
liters, my tank is only 170 liters, so im wondering why its not heating it to the right temp. Ive rang the pet store this morning about it and
they said to turn up the temp on the heater, but the thing i i shouldn't have to do that. Do you think the heater is faulty? Should i return it
and get another one the same watts? Im a bit confused about this :o

[shiney2512]

You need to calibrate the heater.

From the heater manual


Recalibration

If, after a day or two in operation the setting scale does not correspond to the water temperature, follow the following procedure to recalibrate the heater:
Switch off the heater and unplug it from the mains supply.Measure the water temperature with an accurate thermometer. Turn indicator arrow (red) to point to the measured temperature.Set the desired tank temperature with the temperature selector ring (blue) .

[Sabrina]

Hi Shiney :)
Thank you very much, that was helpful! I did more accurate testing and the temp is 27c in the tank, so its 1c out atm. Tomorrow i will follow
those instructions and calibrate the heater. I think because the glass is so thick the strip thermo wasn't working right, i will stick with the glass
thermometer from now on!

[Sabrina]

Hi Hollowman,
I was able to use some sponge filter out of a fully cycled tank and put it in the top of the new filter. I was also able to use a whole filter that was also fully cycled and stick it to the side of the tank under the flow of the water coming out of the filter, i was able to turn it on too and run it! I also added 6 Cory Catfish to the tank today after testing the water, it had some ammonia in it so i added ammonia guard(Seachem AmGuard), it had no nitrite and no nitrate yet. I am using Seachem Stability everyday for the next 7 days also, which is like quick start and its safe to add fish. But not my Discus yet, of course :)
2118621187

[sayid]

hi sabrina
shiney is correct regarding calibration ,the strip thermometer is not very accurate ,i would go with a gless thermometer even then it takes at least 24 h for the temperature to stabilize , your Eheim heater is the best money can buy ,not exactly true but you know what i mean.

[Sabrina]

Hi Sayid :)
Thank you also, i will calibrate it in the morning. And yes i know what you mean!

[Sabrina]

Oh i almost forgot to mention, i went to my local pet store right as they were getting fish delivery, i got the pick of the new Discus :o
I know i should have waited but i could not help myself, i got this real little cutie, he is a juvenile, grey color with black stripes! I just
could not resist him. He is in my 120L tank with the other 2 discus and they are a bit bossy of him but getting along ok for now. I just
cant wait for my big tank to be ready, their new home. I then can also add the lone male Discus i have in the 2 foot tank as i am too
frightened to place him in the 120L because he is far too bossy. Here is a pic of my new baby...
21188

[sayid]

Hi sabrina ;
I looked at your tank and some of your measurements ,i am not an expert but these are my personal experience .
Depend on your location ( which state you live )your water might be hard but having broken barrel , old bell does not help especially if they are made of cement based material ,they also take your valuable real estate in your tank ,your discus need space to swim ,if you want decor ,have a drift wood ,it will reduce your ph and also possibly your gh and kh .
I know you want your discus to be happy .
Good luck

[Sabrina]

Hello Sayid!
Thank you very much for the advice. I am in Victoria Australia. Yes my water is hard, the KH and GH are high but im using driftwood to make it softer.
The barrel and bells are made of light plastic, and i thought they would be good hiding holes for my discus to get away from each other? I have the
barrel in my 120L tank currently and my discus love it to hide in but i have noticed they get territorial of the barrel. Because i have had trouble with
my discus being bullies, its the main reason i brought the bells and the barrel for places to hide. I want my babies to feel safe at all times

[sayid]

hi sabrina ;
I had problem with bulling when i bought my first 3 discus ,but the it gets easier as you get more discus ,i have found you need 6 discus to spread the aggression you just need to be careful and add discus gradually so the filter has chance to increase its good bacteria accordingly other wise you get mini cycling and that will stress your fish ,also you mentioned your ammonia is 0.25 ,this could possibly show that your filter is either still cycling or it is not big enough for the fish in the tank your ammonia should be zero. But overall i think you are doing good job.
HTH

[Sabrina]

Oh right, i knew of having more Discus spreads the aggression out amongst them yes. Thats why i now have 4 of them to start off with.
Yes my filter might still be cycling in the 120L as that tank has only been set up since the 15th July, and yes i put my discus through a fish
in cycle because i didn't know any better at the time. I lost my first Discus (Disco) sadly. I know the ammonia should be 0 and im doing
water changes and using the good chemicals by Seachem in the tank for optimal water conditions. I rushed into Discus keeping a bit too
fast and have paid the price and learned that these fish are very special to keep. That new big tank is especially brought for my Discus and
has cost lots of money, arms and legs worth lol So i hope i am doing something right for them now to make up for everything i did wrong in
the start.

[Sabrina]

Thought id post a few pics of my babies :)
21190211912119221193

[Sabrina]

Hi guys,
Looks like i didn't ever show you the on going photos of the new tank! Its fully cycled now and the fish are loving it :D
212302123121232

[Sabrina]

Oh and my babies too :p
21233212342123521236

[Hollowman]

Good work Sabrina

[Sabrina]

Thanks Hollowman! :D