Dying Discus - Not sure what to do next??

[Webby]

A few weeks ago when I was doing my weekly water changes I forgot to turn my heaters back on and the temp dropped to 26c. All seemed fine the temp came back up and everyone was happy. The following week I lost 2 fish, seemed to be picked on and were not eating. Did the usual, checked the water did 30-40% water changes so on. I Heckle remained very shy and I have not notice it eat since, not growing, darker in colour and always hiding. Never comes out for food. Yesterday 1 more week on I have set up a quarantine tank but before the transfer I noticed that all fish were hovering at the top of the tank as if they were eating from the surface of the water. Then I noticed a checkerboard was lying almost flat on the gravel taking large rapid breaths. I have transferred both the little Heckle and the struggling Checkerboard to the quarantine tank, treated for bacteria with Pimafix and Fluke and Tapeworm with Prazi.

What should I do? I don't want to loose any more discus!! Help Please.

Parameters of tanks:

Display tank is 250Lt, planted, drift wood, tetras, cory's and bristle nose and snails. Originally 7 juvenile discus, more recently 5.

PH 6 - 6.5 naturally.
KH 3
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 1
Temp 31c

Ehiem 2026 Filter, water changes 20% - 30% weekly.

Quarantine Tank 60Lt Glass bottom bio filtered driftwood air stone and 1 potted java fern for easy cleaning. 1 bristle nose to cycle the tank when no discus present.


PH 6.5 Chemically.
KH 2
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 0
Temp 30.8c

20% weekly water changes or as needed.

Pictures Attached of my sick fish.

[Webby]

The Checkerboard died over night. Does anyone know what might have caused this and what I can do to prevent any more fish dying?

[Hooked]

Hi Webby,
Your fish look very emaciated/skinny. If you have not noticed any difference in them eating and they are still this skinny then I'd say possibly a worm prob. But as is often with discus can be a number of things.
The best advice I can give you is to contact "living78" on the Perth Cichlid Society forum. He is the main Discus supplier in Perth and the importer of Huey Hung brand Discus specific meds. These meds are second to none.
Heres his ad on Gumtree,

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/manning/fish/new-aa-grade-discus-fish-for-sale-wholesale-prices-/1021342030

Give him a call or text and say that Hooked recommends you see him for some meds asap. He will help you out,

Good luck mate,

Cheers,

[Webby]

Thanks hooked, I will try and get in contact with Living78 and see if he can help.

In the mean time I think I may have an even bigger problem. I did my usual water change today (weekly) and upped the change to 50% because all the larger discus in the planted tank were at the surface of the water and not interested in food.

After the change they seemed fine, but this evening ALL my fish Discus Tetras and even the Corys are running up the side of the tank are all at the surface of the water like they are trying to breath air. With rapid respiration.

Can any one confirm if these are symptoms of poisoning and if so what can I do, I would hate to loose all my fish.

I have tested the water and there is no change from the test today by my LFS

Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
PH = 6.5

MY LFS suggested I add API Stress Coat and Stress Zyme which I added one dose of each for the tank today.

I have added a couple of pics, in one of them you can see the rummy nose at the back at the surface as well.

please HELP.

[Hooked]

Hi Webby,

I missed the bit in your first post that said they were not eating so well. Can be a symptom of internal parasitic protozoa. But if you have not noticed white or stringy poo (another symptom to watch for) then probably not that.

I think the fact that after your water change that ALL fish are heading to the surface will give an indication to someone of the problem.

Is the water well aerated with enough surface water movement for transfer of oxygen? Also have you been regularly checking the ph - not just prior to and after the change. Did you check all parameters when later noticing the fish heading to the surface?
I'm sure you would be adding a product such as Prime to your change water to remove the chloramines etc?
Possibly explain the method of how you go about changing your water. For instance is there any build up of waste in the tank that could lead to a bacterial infection? You are probably doing a regular gravel vac so probably not that. Also if it was that, wouldn't affect the other smaller fish so much. Are you aging the change water for long and allowing the ph to settle after adjusting it a couple of times? If it's a steady ph of 6.5 before going in as you say it shouldn't be a ph prob.
It doesn't take a lot to upset Discus, fluctuating ph or temps can lead to bacterial infections, but I still keep going back to what is causing All the fish to act in this way?
I'm sure one of the crew will be along shortly with better advice. The addition of salt and raised temps can be just as good as meds sometimes, depending on the ailments. : )

Cheers

[Webby]

Thanks Hooked.

As suggested for extra info.

I do a gravel clean with each change.
I use Sera aqua tan to age the water added directly to the tank.
Tap water is added to the tank as new water (which has a natural PH of 7.5 built combined with the remaining tank water does not alter the tank PH of 6.5)
I add 5ml of iron for good plant health.

That is it.

As mentioned before yesterday I put API stress cost and Stress zyme in as suggested by LFS to assist good health of the fish? Not sure if it helped or worsened the situation.

[turquoisegirl1]

make sure there is sufficient oxygenation in the tank - if it is worms, it's worth your while cranking up the heater to 32-33 degrees, especially in the quarantine tank - this makes life a little harder for the worms and is more likely to kill them, however if your oxygenation is a problem, warmer water only makes it worse - is the inlet pipe from your filter far enough above the water to cause bubbles etc?

i would be inclined to move the sickest/skinniest fish to a quarantine tank, keep the temp at 33ish, dose daily with prazi and water change 50% daily --- keep the pH low, and I wouldn't be adding your 7.5 pH tap water straight to the tank - this water is most likely quite hard and even though your tank water eventually buffers the new water down to 6.5, you will be putting stress on the fish while this takes place. always match the water you are adding to the desired conditions of the tank first, unless your fish are fat, strong and healthy - in which case, i personally still wouldn't.

finally, cut back on all of the stress zyme etc, and instead dose with salt. this will encourage the discus' slime coat and acts as a mild disinfectant. 1 teaspoon per 40L on the first day, then add another on the second day. maintain a level of 2 teaspoons of salt per 40L thereafter, eg replace all salt taken out when you water change, same with the prazi.

too many chemicals will cause too much stress on your fish - ive tried the above method for serious cases of worms and discus plague and it has a pretty high success rate, but make sure you match those water conditions before the water goes in and keep the salt and prazi up. once the fish stop eating you have around 2-3 weeks max to figure out whats wrong and treat it, probably closer to 2 weeks for the juvies.

good luck!

[Merrilyn]

Do a big water change and add he salt (cooking salt or rock salt, not table salt) and drop a couple of airstones in the tank as soon as you can. If all the fish are at the surface gasping for air, then seem normal after a water change, it's pretty clear there is a lack of oxygen in the tank.

Your tank readings worry me a bit. There should be some nitrate reading if your filter is fully cycled, yet you say there is none. I think we need some more information on your tank maintenance to try to sort out the problem.

How long have you had the heckle? He's very emaciated and I don't think he's going to pull through, especially if he's not eating. I have found that heckles never do well in with domestic bred fish. Their water requirements are entirely different, both temperature and pH.

Please don't add any more chemicals to the water, especially not worming meds and certainly no plant fertiliser until we get this problem sorted out.

For the time being, do a 50% water change every second day and maintaining the salt level in both the hospital and main tank. Oxygen and warmth is what they need now, and a chance to recover. Good luck.