Parents transferring wigglers to sponge filter

[dvdrew]

This is the first batch from this pair that have gone to wiggler stage. As they started hatching, the parents transferred them and spat them onto one of the two sponge filters in my tank.

Is this normal and what can I do to ensure the best possible survival rate for these wrigglers?

[Discus Planetarium]

take the sponge filter out you need the fry to go to the parents just use an air stone...

[dvdrew]

Take it out after they become free swimming? How many days until then? Or should I remove the filter straight away?

[Discus Planetarium]

take it out now run an air stone and keep up with your water changes lower your water hight also

[dvdrew]

How do you remove the wigglers off the filter without upsetting the parents?

[Hooked]

Hi mate,

just my 2cents worth but in my limited experience with breeding Discus I would just leave them alone at this stage. Often it takes a few goes for the parents to get it right. (and that's not to be read that they are somehow doing something wrong at this stage, all sounds good to me so far) Its their tank, their fry, let them put them where they want and just sit back an enjoy the experience. The way I see it is I'm just the cleaner : )

All the best of luck,

Cheers

[dvdrew]

UPDATE: The parents have moved them back to the cone. They are trying to hide them from my prying eyes. I will leave them to it and only go there to feed and clean.

[Hooked]

Hi,
Its a very enjoyable experience. I would sit for ages and watch. I would just try and not spook them if possible, approach slowly etc. Life has to gone on as normal in the household but I just let the kids know to be mindfull about not freaking out the fry's parents. Sounds like you have got a good pair,

Congrats! : )

[waggin]

I've found 2 of my discus pairs do a similar thing. Each pair has a slightly different idea of where they like to move the wrigglers - I've seen sponge filter, straight onto the tank side glass, power heads, etc. They also tend to move them from one side of the cone to the other at this time.

I eventually put 2 breeding cones in each breeding tank and I find both parents will happily tansfer the wrigglers between cones as they see fit, most likely all part of keeping the area clean for the wrigglers.

I never remove the sponge filter, it's there for bio-filtration and seems to cause no harm. Once the wrigglers start free swimming they will find their parents given a correctly sized and lit tank I find.

[dvdrew]

Fry have been free swimming for a couple of days. Some fry tried to attach to parents but the parents keep putting them back on the breeding cone. I tried removing the beeding cone but tue parents rounded them up and put them on the heater. Even when a fry was eating off a parent, the parent would mouth them and spit them onto any suitable surface. As soon as any fry moved from the nest the parent would suck them in and put them back. The will not let the fry eat from their backs.

What can I do?

[Hooked]

Hi Drew,

These sound like great parents to me. Very attentive to their young. Give it time and resist the urge to get to involved. I know its hard but all Discus are different. Just as all humans will do things different from each other, they will do things different from other pairs. Id recommend giving it time and not changing their environment to much or to often.

Cheers

P.s - this is the link below to what happened for me. It has some great advice from the members here that really helped me and may help you also. I had a couple of unusual/interesting things happen with my batch.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23397

[dvdrew]

The fry are now feeding from the parents, more so the female who is a pidgeon blood. She went a lovely dark red & orange colour. The male is a leopard and he lost his colour going very pale. He appears grumpy.

There is about 15 - 20 fry and they are all swimming much better than yesterday.

PS - These parents have not had fry before and I am amazed how well they are doing.

[Hooked]

Hi,

Some pairs are good parents some are not. I'd say you have a great pair so far and you will probably have a much larger batch next time. Don't be disheartened if they eat this batch. I've been told, apparently they will eat a small batch sometimes, possibly in favour of wanting to increase the odds of more fry surviving? If they do, I'd bet they would lay again a week to 10 days later.

Enjoy!

Good luck : )

[waggin]

Yes.. certainly sound like good parents unlike many of the horror stories you read online.

One thing I find with my pairs, if there aren't many fry they are more likely to get bored and eat them. For a short while I went through a period of 90% of my eggs turning white, and hence only 5-30 fry hatching. From this stage the parents would be rather quick to eat the fry. Once things got back to normal with 80-90% hatch rates the parents would happily keep the fry for as long as I left them in the tank. Maybe after a few days of feeding it might be time to grab the fry out and raise them on BBS. Then there's no risk of the parents getting bored and the parents will go back to breeding duties again.

I found as my pairs get more experienced they do a better job of sharing the load of feeding the fry. Keep us updated, all sounding good!

[dvdrew]

Ok, we know that we need a heater but do they come in white? How do I stop this from happening or do they seek out their parents when hungry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kTDSG1Eo4I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Hooked]

Hi Drew,
Ah, very cute. I wouldn't be to concerned at this stage. If they were just in that one spot all day without the parents able to get to them, then maybe remove the suction cup, but I'd say Mum and Dad will sort them out. I see one of them there in the vid watching intently.
The general advice given is that you should wrap white filter cloth around black sponge filters etc so that your fish are the darkest things in the tank. I did this when I had my batch. Then sat back, proud of my handiwork, looking at my bright white filters as my bright white fish swam past?

: )

[dvdrew]

Thanks Hooked. That is the female. She is always close by, even if they get into a difficult location for her to get to them. I will wrap the black bits on the heater today.

At what age do the fry understand the difference between a parent and other black things?

[Hooked]

Hi Drew,

Up to you mate. I'd probably not worry to much about it unless they were just always there, not moving and parents unable to get them.

Some fry will get it fairly quickly that parents equal food. Some will take longer. Like us, after a good feed they often like to find somewhere to relax. They wont hang on the parents 24/7. We see great pics of parents swarming with fry but they wont be like that all the time. Sometimes parents will deposit the fry somewhere and just be nearby watching. Maybe that is what is happening with your fry now? Its hard to know. I know I've said it before but resist the urge to "fix" what may not need fixing. I also don't like to remove fry to "save" them as its a lot of work and who's to know what is happening really with the parents. If your parents were constantly eating their young after a bunch of attempts, then yes, try to remove and hand raise. But I wouldn't consider that even remotely yet if this is there first go. They really sound great so far. They all take time to learn.
Its really amazing! Isn't it...... : )

Cheers