Setting up a Discus tank!

[phishphood]

I currently have a 60 gallon tank that is inhabited by a Tiger Oscar. My mom hates the giant thing, so I am planning on clearing out the tank and putting in some beautiful discus. I have wanted to breed fish for a long time (besides my jack dempseys that will not stop making fry for the life of them), and Discus' great beauty (and how they seem to float around in the tank, almost gliding) has always intrigued me.

I just have a few questions:

1) Is a 60 gallon big enough for a breeding tank? How many discus can it hold without bothering the discus while I wait for them to pair up? How many should I place in the tank to get a pair?
2) How *do* you sex a discus?
3) What kind of substrate is best?
4) What kind of filtration should I use?
5) California water SUCKS :P Is basic water going to be an issue?? (around 8-8.5ph levels)
6) Anything else I should know before I jump in? :)

Thanks for any help you can give me!

[Merrilyn]

Hi phishphood and welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of discus. Are you planning to use the sixty gallon for breeding a breeding tank, or will you use a smaller tank, say a 29 gallon once the pairs have formed?

You could easily keep 6 discus in that tank, and have gravel and plants and turn it into a beautiful display tank that will please your mom. It's just not possible to reliably sex young discus, so it's much better to let them form pairs naturally.

You probably already had good filtration for your oscar, so that will be fine for your discus. A small particle size in the substrate is important, as you will be vacuuming it at least twice a week when you do water changes.

If you've been reading this forum, you know that discus prefer soft, acid water, so I think your first purchase is going to have to be a Reverse Osmosis unit. Your water with a pH of 8.5 is too high to breed and in my opinion, too high to successfully keep discus.

Talk to your local pet shop and see if they know of anyone in your area keeping discus without treating the water with r.o.

A locally bred strain of discus would be best for you, if a r.o. unit is out of the question.

[Aurora]

Hi phishphood,

To try and answer some of your questions......

1. Yes 60 gallons is more than enough for a breeding tank. The rule of thumb is 1 adult discus to 10 gallons, so you could have 6 aldults in there. If your filteration and water change rountine is good you could even add a few more. Most people start with a group of about 6 juvuniles and this can give you 1 or 2 pairs. The more you have, the better your chance of getting a pair though :)

2. Sexing discus is very hard. Most people cant do it. Some experts are able to tell the difference based on the breeding tube they use during spawning. The female has a more rounded one and the male has a more pointed one. But dont even really bother trying to sex them yourself, just get a group together and they will figure it out for themselves ;)

3. The best substrate is a personal choice. There are many avid fans of bare bottom tank that have no substrate. This is because they are much easier to keep clean. You can still put driftwood and potted plants in there to make it look good though. Others just have gravel or some have sand. I have sand in one and gravel in another. Its up to you. If you choose to have a substrate though you will have to make sure you syphon it regularly.

4. The best filteration depends on wether you have plants or not. If you dont have plants then having a sump, which is just a smaller tank full of filter media and bio balls, is one of the best options. But if you have plants it is not very good because of its tendancy to dissipate CO2 from the water. A lot of people (including myself) use canister filters. They are very good for filteration and are quiet too.

5. 8-8.5 pH is pretty high. If it is a little basic, say 7.5, that would be fine, as long as you kept it constant. But that is a bit too high. A Reverse Osmosis unit will help you produce water of a lower pH. For a cheaper option you could use a pH down powder, but these often contain phosphate and the algae will have a field day. Or you could use a buffer that you can buy from the fish store. Some people dont like these as they say they arent stable and the pH can crash, but I have used them and have never had a problem.

6. Theres not really too much to know. Mostly only two main things...... a varied diet, preferably high in protein.........and water change, water change, water change........and if in doubt?........water change :D
Oh yeah and they like warm water, about 84-86F

I know Ladyred answered some of these, but I was already half way through when my brother needed to do something, and I'd be damned if I was going to stop now :lol:

I hope some of this helps

[Merrilyn]

Glad you posted that Dave. You raise some very valid points.

[DR.V]

look at the pros , answering all the questions, nothing left for me to answer :P , just wanna add something , Whatever Aurora & ladyred said is perfect :D

[Merrilyn]

LOL thanks :wink:

[Aurora]

Thanks :)

But Im hardly a pro. It is just the result of being on this site like 2-3 times day :lol:

[phishphood]

Ahh.. forum stalkers, gotta love it :)

Thanks for the help guys (and gals). There's actually a pair of snow white (already bred once) for sale in my area.. anyone have a clue on how much I should pay (max) for this?

As far as aquariums go.. I would keep the mated pair in the 60 gallon.. but then again this goes into question with fry. Do the fry and discus bother each other or are they okay to be together for a short period like cichlids? I'm slowly phasing out my community tanks and eels and replacing them with breeding fish.. so I guess I could shuffle some fish around :X

[Merrilyn]

The snow white pair sound great if you can get them for a reasonable price. Keep in mind, that just because they have bred for someone else, there is no guarantee they will breed for you. True mated pairs are like gold, and are rarely sold, so be prepared to pay for them. Sorry, got no idea what they would be worth. Maybe some of our U.S.members can give you a better idea.

You COULD use the 60 gallon as a breeding tank, but there are a few problems. If I was going to use a tank that size, this is what I would do:-

Keep the decorations in the tank minimal. No substrate, but bare bottom. Some plants in pots and maybe some driftwood, as well as the breeding cone in a corner as far away from the filter outlet as possible. Discus hate strong current, and it will intefer with the eggs being fertilised.

As you know, fry need to attach to the parents to feed as soon as they become free swimming, so any thing dark in the tank will attract them, and they will take longer to bond with the parents. Or they may swim aimlessly around in the tank, and never find the parents at all and perish.

Breeding tanks are usually a bare 29 gallon tank set up with nothing but the breeding cone and the pair. Very frequent water changes and high quality food with a percentage of live food are essential, as is very soft and slightly acid water. Your pH should be around 6.8 for successful breeding.

Once you actually have fry attached to the parents backs, they can happily stay there for around a month. Discus are cichlids, and will care for their fry for several weeks after hatching, unless the parents show signs of wanting to spawn again, at which time the fry should be removed to their own grow out tank.

Because the fry actually eat the skin off the parent's sides, the parents can become quite ragged if a large spawn is left with them for too long, and they'll need quite some time to regain condition before they want to breed again.

Read thru some of the posts in the breeding section. It's full of really good information. HTH