My Eheim 2217 doesnt seem to be enough ( what do i do )

[Felix]

OK let me start ive had this tank going since Sept last year, its an aqua one 980T which i believe is a 250lt (66 gallon ) tank.
The water is always very dirty sludgy on/in the gravel all the time. Looking at it the water seems very clear, i can see straight through like its not even filled with water. Ive reduced food over time thinking im overfeaading but its mostly poop that just stays in the tanks gravel. I do 2 water changes weekly approx 30% removing the water with a gravel vac. My fish still seem to be suffering for poor water conditions.

water temp 27 degs, though have noticed a drop in the cold mornings recently by a 1 deg or 2
ph 6.8
Ammonia .1
Nitrite .03

Stock
2 adult pair Silver Dollars
2 angels
2 pearl gouramis
had a pair of German rams, they died with some neons .

One of the Angels and male pearl have cloudy eyes and seem to be bulging out from the sides, ive treated twice with Tri Sulfa tablets over the week but no change, getting worse.

Do i need another cannister for the Eheim doesnt seem to be moving enough on the gravel.
I do put new water in straight from tap and then use prime to chlorinate is this a no no , My wife does not like another tank in the house cycling for the water changes. What options are there.

How do i sort my issue for im keen to start a discus tank in a few months but not before i learn from these mistakes.

Do i need more equipment and what, preferably not much more than $400 if possible.

Cheers Felix
Ild really appreciate some answers for reading all the info out there has just confused me even more ( eg some say UV filter other say no UV filter ) It goes on. Brain sensory overload.

[swifto]

What size is your current filter,u need to turn the tank volume over at least 4 times an hour,increase temp 30.,cloudy eyes is the first indication something is wrong.

[Felix]

I'm really not sure. I was told it was suitable for a 600lt tank, thinking my tank is 250lts that it should be plenty enough for the job but I really question the ability for that volume.

[swifto]

Im running a Eheim 2180 on a 300ltr tank,filter is rated for a 1000ltr tank it's over kill but worth it water is crystal clear,no waste on bottom of the tank.
You can't over filter,just my opinion.

[Nev]

Not sure if it was a typo but.....
You don't add the prime after you add the new water .
Add it to the new water before it goes in the tank.
Use a bucket, and ageing for a day is good but not written in stone.
If you can't keep neons or rams don't try for discus.

[Merrilyn]

You should have a zero ammonia reading an a zero nitrite reading and a nitrate reading of under 10, so your water condition are not ideal. Any ammonia reading will affect your fish, so you need to address that first.

A canister filter won't clean up the sludge from the bottom of your tank. They're good, but not that good. You need to do a thorough gravel vac to clean your gravel. Make sure you push the vac tube right into the gravel till you see gravel and debris in the tube. The gravel will swirl around then drop back to the bottom while the debris will go out with the waste water.

The next thing to do is to clean out your filter. Replace the filter pads with new ones and give the hard media a good wash with dechlorinated water. Remember that chlorinated water straight out of the tap will kill all the good bacteria in your filter, so only use dechlorinated water or old water from the tank.

Get your water right, and your tank clean before you attempt neons and rams again. If the rams and neons survive, then discus should do well also.

[ILLUSN]

Merrilyn is right on the money. heres what I'd do.
1 get enough aged preheated water to do a massive change (set up a 200L tank or barrel to do this) you want the new water to be the exact same ph and temp as your tank.

2 do a massive water change and gravel vac the entire time aim to take out 180-200L of water

3 with the water you removed from the aquarium clean your filter wash all the solid media and the corse sponge, replace the fine sponge

4 top up the tank and retart the filter, monitor your NH3/NH4 and NO2 you want to keep both at 0 if need be you'll have to do massive wagterchanges (75%+) DAILY untill your filter catches up.


FYI 2217=200L discus tank or 300L if you maintain it propperly. A propperly maintained discus tank is small feeds several times a day, a quick vac 5-20min after feeding to remove any uneaten food and water changes of 30-50% 2-3x a week (my tanks get a 50% change every 48hrs i have 15 tanks totaling 2900L)

5 gravel vac your tank EVERY WATER CHANGE, or better yet remove all the grave and go bare bottom.

[Felix]

I obviously Havnt taken in consideration the importance of using aged water. I been topping up from my kitchen tap so I can control the water temp, seeing I've been doing this for 8 months now thought it was working out untill the recent deaths its definitely one of my issues.
My fish have spawned often during that time but they eat the eggs after it so nothing would come of it, this has given me a false representation that if they spawn the water conditions should be fine.
Secondly, I do gravel vac twice a week but thinking maybe I have too much gravel, about 30mm thick at front and 50mm thick at rear. This could be an area of bacterial build up.
Basically if I address those my 2217 should be fine would you agree with that.
Cheers guys, thanks for the feedback. My plan was to run a tank for a year and learn from it for I ultimately want to have a discus tank one day for there is nothing like watching the beauty of these elegant fish.
Cheers

[Felix]

This morning i re-connected the origninal pump that comes with the ar980 tank and im blown away by how much more at least double the water is now turning over in the tank, the sludge is dissappearing and ive changed the filter floss twice so far on the top wet and dry filter system. I still have the 2217 connected as well .I cleaned it out this morning with tank water of course.

Im convinced now that the eheim over inflates real world capabilities or my eheim has been a dud from the beginning. fish seem active already or there just freaking out but i had to do something

Both spray bars are on the top filter together now, dont know how this will work probably not the right thing to do overall .Ill see what my water levels are like in a week or few days see if its time to get a cannister with a bit more muscle and then just run both cannisters.

Ive got hold of a freebie 50 liter tank to aid in my water changes. It has a wet and dry system as well. Should i have some gravel in this small tank for biological filtration, or the noodles and Purigen in the filter system is enough.

Cheers

Maybe i should stick to astrophysicist.

[swifto]

if your getting another canister get the Eheim Pro3e 2078.Its rated for tanks 300-500ltr this will do the job,greatly increasing the clarity of your water and u will only need to change 100ltrs of water once a week.Also run your 2217, take of the spray bar and have the return pipe face along the back of the tank.

[broadfoot]

Hey Felix,

you don't need a second tank setup to age water. A bucket with a heater in it would be fine.

Just put your tap water into the bucket along with the dosage of Prime/dechlorinator and give it 2 hours or so and it'll be perfect.

[Big Kahuna]

Hi there Felix. Why don't you have a look at filtering your water straight from the tap into your tank. This is what I do with a little RO unit and my water parameters are fine. Discus planetarium sell a system that removes just about all the bad stuff including chloramine etc.... you could set this up on a flick mixer tap and add 28 to 30 degree water and remove the need for heating in a bucket or tank as well. Its just a thought, if you can make it easy you will do it all the time and not miss scheduled water changes and the like because its to hard or to complex. Plus it will give you more time to enjoy the fish. Just remember, always test your water after you have done a change so you can fix parameters straight away if need be.

[mawhins]

I don't use an RO unit but I thought those that do typically reconstitute the water with minerals using a commercial product (can't remember the names now), they put back the trace elements that the RO takes out. Discus like it soft but not too soft as I understand.

[ILLUSN]

filtration is NOT about turn over, its about dwell time between the water and the bacteria living on the filter substrate, ideally you want enough dwell time to convert all ammonia to nitrate in 1 pass.

flow is nice for some species like plecos but please keep an eye on your water quality.

[Big Kahuna]

I agree Illusn. Water quality is everything, and consistent water quality is even more important. Its got to be the same today, tomorrow and in 6months time.

[Felix]

[quote="Big Kahuna"]Hi there Felix. Why don't you have a look at filtering your water straight from the tap into your tank. This is what I do with a little RO unit and my water parameters are fine. Discus planetarium sell a system that removes just about all the bad stuff including chloramine etc.... you could set this up on a flick mixer tap and add 28 to 30 degree water and remove the need for heating in a bucket or tank as well. Its just a thought, if you can make it easy you will do it all the time and not miss scheduled water changes and the like because its to hard or to complex. Plus it will give you more time to enjoy the fish. Just remember, always test your water after you have done a change so you can fix parameters straight away if need be.[/quote

Thanks for the advice Does discus planetarium have a web site. Are these availiable for less than $100 or are they pricey. Basically your saying i can connect it to my kitchen mixer tap and have it run directly into the tank. What is the pressure like, do they run slowly through the filters or are they quite decent. Any advice on some models that will work well which are no brainers to use that come as a complete kit.

Ive stuck with standard power head filter of the ar980T, removed the canister all together and put my biological media from canister into the wet /dry filter. All my parameters are perfect now, fish are happy. I do two 50 litre changes a week with dechlorinated water and clean the filter weekly.

Thanks guys apreciate the time you all put in helping others who arnt familiar with this but want to learn about it.

Cheers Felix

[ILLUSN]

keep an eye on your NO3 and try and keep it below 20ppm, this biggest issue with the inbuilt filter in your tank is it provides massive aerobic filtration at the expence of anerobic de nitrification.

adjust your water change schedual and ammount to keep your NO3 as low as possible and you wont have any issues.