Discus questions from a newbie 'old hand'

[Sean]

Hi Folks, I have been off this forum for years and it is nice to see some regulars back then still around (Lady Red). I used to have discus (breeding setup) and decided to sell them all and breed tropheus and frontosas instead - well, it was fun but now I am trying my hand at discus after 5 years or more. So, you would think that i wouldn't make so many mistakes.
I had a 6 ft tank with a pair of large oscars - I put these in a larger tank and changed filters, most of the water and lowered the pH - and then... put 6 smallish 5-8 cm blue turqs and snakeskins in the tank - about 2 days after taking the oscars out. - The discus didn't like it at all - went dark and looked very stressed. I checked the pH and it was back up to pH7.8 - I forgot I had crushed marble as a substrate. -
I have now replaced all the substrate with small pebbles - replaced 60% of the water (all the water is from puratap - and still have very shy discus. There was a funny smell in the tank and I thought ammonia for sure - my canister filter was the culprit as I forgot to turn in on for a few days and for some reason turn it back on without thinking - doh!
I have now treated the tank with ' Ammolock ' and hoping for the best. I did lose one fish which is pretty unforgivable -
Reading the posts here, I wont worry about lowering the pH and let 1/4 water change every second day do that to about pH of 7.3
I am assuming the the hardness would be still pretty high - and Adelaide water is very hard.
The fish are not eating well and have been providing them with brine shrimp which they have started to eat - only if they practically swim into the discus' mouth.

current specs:
7 discus for one week
Temp is 29.5, pH is 7.4
internal power filter (not too strong)
2 air stones
Eheim canister filter
(not too much water movement)
Lots of large river rocks and a few logs for hiding


Any suggestions?
What is the current thought on feeding live black worm?
I want to get the discus onto NLS discus food.
Is beef heart OK once a week?
PuraTap - there doesn't seem to be a consensus here - is it better than aged with water conditioner?

While I am asking a thousand questions - I have a turtle pond outside and there are a zillion mosquito larvae - is it too dangerous to feed these live to the discus - tropheus and other fish loved them with never any problems.

Any comments suggestions much appreciated.

Sean

[Mr Wild]

Hi Sean I will try to help - I would raise the temp to 32C and yes live food is fine I have fed mine only don't over do it.
Freeze fried black worms are great.
Beefheart is fine although I think unecessary but I might get howled down here! lol
But if Jack Wattley can raise his without beefheart so can I!

Stability is key, don't worry about your PH, I prefer aged, heated and degassed water for my wc you just can't go wrong if you are replacing like with like.

[Nev]

Any live food that'll fit in their mouths good.
Mine love sweetheart and is the main food
Think about a clean up crew in the tank - cories and bn.
Don't all houses in Adelaide have tank water? Am told the tap water is a meal in a glass. No idea regards purrawater.

[Sean]

Thanks for the replies.
From the comments above I fed the discus some wrigglers - it was unbelievable they went crazy for them - the colours of the red melons came up beautifully and so vivid. They are still breathing fast but seemed a lot more settled in and I am still doing the water changes. Is 'sweetheart' beef heart? The problem with BH is that i do not have bare bottom tank and it is planted etc - good comment about bristle nose (bn?) for cleaning up. My KH is still 6 drops, so I am hoping this will change gradually with the water changes every 2 days.

So far, so good - no more casualties touch wood.

Very impressed with the reaction to the mosquito larvae

Cheers


Sean

[swifto]

A planted tank is ok for b/h,Cory's and bn will eat what the discus can't get .

[Merrilyn]

Mosquito larvae is a wonderful, natural food for your discus. The only reservation I have is that they will mature very quickly in our heated discus water, and if you feed too many at a time, and some get missed, then you and the family are going to be doing a lot of swatting. At that stage, your only consolation is knowing that only the females bite :P

As far as beef heart goes, so long as the diet is varied and nutritious, you can feed just about anything. Beef heart is not absolutely necessary.

NSL is a good food. I had trouble getting my fish onto it. Seemed to take them about two weeks to really get used to it. Live blackworms - hmmm no. I'd give the live ones a miss because you can't be absolutely sure how the retailer has held them before you purchase. If you buy them direct from the supplier, Mal, then that's different. I know his worms are delivered absolutely fresh. I prefer the freeze dried worms. Same nutritional value, and discus love them. Also no worries about freshness.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Get a white worm culture going. They are a great.

I feed:

Live white worms
Live shrimp
NLS (3 different type)
Mals freeze dried black worms
Good quality flake
Frozen discus dinner
Peas. spinach and bok choy.

[Sean]

Cheers for your replies. Nice to see this site hasn't changed for years and is still giving great advice to fishy ppl and their favourite fish :)
My fish now look healthy and happy - I think I just panicked and made the classic mistake of not checking all the water parameters BEFORE putting the fish in the tank!
I am hooked on NLS food - I used to hate promoting a commercial feed but for tropheus, NLS was fantastic for years - so I am glad to see others using it for discus - I suppose variety is best.
Just to add, I am very glad that mosquito wrigglers get the nod - it is so cool to just walk out the back and get some live food. I also have raided the worm farm and fed some small worms to the discus - they loved them.
Now, to try bok choy and other greens - do you soften it in boiling water before feeding it to the fishes?
Thanks

Sean

[Hooked]

Hi,

I'm keen to know about the "greens" prep also and how often?

Cheers

[Sean]

Hi Sean I will try to help - I would raise the temp to 32C and yes live food is fine I have fed mine only don't over do it.
Freeze fried black worms are great.
Beefheart is fine although I think unecessary but I might get howled down here! lol
But if Jack Wattley can raise his without beefheart so can I!

Stability is key, don't worry about your PH, I prefer aged, heated and degassed water for my wc you just can't go wrong if you are replacing like with like.

Thanks for the reply - I think maybe I should have taken your advice about the water changes - I do not heat the water - it is straight out of the 'pura tap' tap. I add about a 1/4 of recommended water conditioner. Well, yesterday I changed about 1/3rd to a 1/2 of the water and the tank dropped from 29.1 degrees to 27.9 - not much I thought - about 2h after the change - the 2 smallest discus had a bad case of white spot. and the red mellons and snake skins also had a sprinkle of white spots on them - the temp was 28.5 in the 6ft tank. Arrrgh, the little guys were almost black they were so dark. I didn't check them too much this morning but increased the temp to 31 degrees o/night with the addition of another heater. Just checking them now 24h after the water change - the smallest one has just a tiny sprinkle of white spot and it is not evident on any other fish at all. All are eating fine and temp is 32.3 degrees. At lunch time I rushed out and bought 'Rapid White Spot' remedy - formaldehyde and malachite green mix - what to do - the fish have responded so nicely to the increase in temp? I though I would keep the temp up around 33-34 for 5 days or so - I am sure I am going to lose the plants.
I suppose this is the reason that you heat the wc water beforehand - seems like a big hassle but maybe worth it.
If I had only changed 20% maybe this would not have happened. - I would rather not treat if I didn't need to. What do you reckon - feel a bit silly on this one.

:roll: :oops:

[Sean]

Actually, I think I should treat the whole tank - just noticed the ram (pic attached) and rummy nose tetra with white spot - although very much reduced on the discus - pic attached.

[scoob]

I would treat the whole tank with white spot medication I've used " Aquamaster's Rapid White Spot Remedy" and it's very effective, not sure how much it does to plants you might have to remove the plants for the period of treatment.

[Merrilyn]

Yes, do treat the whole tank, and do the follow up treatment too. White spot can be a bit of a stinker to eradicate, so hit it hard.

[Sean]

OK, will do - thanks

[Sean]

OK, I think I have now dealt with the white spot. I have given 2 treatments with the Aqua Master 'Rapid white spot remedy' and increased the water temp to 32 degrees - absolutely no sign of white spot on any fish and all eating and seemingly blissful. Now, one more treatment for good measure? and leave the temp up at 31-32 permamnently?
I still have the problem with hardness of water (12 drops with the Dupla test) - Adelaide's a curse for water and aquariums! But so far so good. pH 7.3
I feel so tempted to buy a sew more discus - arrgh got the bug bad. Must get a quarantine tank.

Cheers for the advice

Sean