Very sick friends

[newfish]

Some very sick fish.

The discus have gone black and have a large amount of white slime and patches of fungus. Fins are shredding and clamped to the side of the fish. They are lying on their side against the glass a lot of the time but come out to feed.

One fish seems to have small holes near head although hard to tell if it is just a hole through the white. Cloudy eyes on same fish.

Initially did a 20% water change and treated with broad spectrum medication but things are just getting worse (this was 5 days ago). Fish getting thinner despite eating (although not much) and losing mobility due to affected fins (all).

Two new fish were introduced which must have been the reason for the outbreak. New fish ae not affected but all existing 4 discus are affected.

The tank has been established with discus for 6 months with no problems (tank running for 9 months total). It is a planted tank with Fluval canister filter (carbon removed fro medication below).


Temp 29
PH 6.8
Nitrite 0

Will try to get some pictures

Any advice would be appreciated.

[newfish]

more info...

The PH mentioned before was incorrect - it is actually at 8

Nitrate is through the roof at 40mg/l

There are no dead fish, rotting plant etc and a gang of corys see to the leftover food. The only new planty added to the tank was some hair grass, no fertilizer but some padding around the base.

From other posts re high nitrate, I changed 40% of the water (nitrate in tap water 0). Will continue with water changes until nitrate drops.

PH seems high due to the water changes (tap water ph is 8)?

Once water changes complete I will medicate for fungus but any other ideas?

Craig

Craig

[Fishpimpin73]

I wonder if this isn't an extreme case of PH shock.

You said that b4 your PH WAS 6.8?

Now it's 8.0?

What is the time frame btwn the 6.8 and the 8.0 reading?

It could be a combo of new fish intro and PH shock.

Not much you can do until you get the PH stable.

Anything that you attempt to treat will just be nullified due to the PH shifting.

HTH

[newfish]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I must have misread the ph before - it has stayed around the 8 mark since the waterchanges.

Nitrate is still very high even after the water changes

[mistakes r crucial]

Craig,

Sounds like you have your fair share of problems to say the least!

Anything new that you have added to the tank, take it out and change a large percentage of water. Get some salt in the tank (1tblspn to 40 litres) to try and ease the stress and help keep them alive whilst you address the rest of the problems. If you can move the Discus or the Cory's, preferably the Cory's but either one will do, Cory's will not tolerate alot of salt.

By what you have said they could have a slime disease (Costia nectarix, Chilodonella cyprini, Trichodina spp), fin rot, possibly hex and probably worms and flukes.

If it were me I would treat them with Waterlife's Myxazin as it will treat fin rot and slime disease at the same time. Keep the temperature up above 28c and make sure there is plenty of oxygen in the water. From memory I think you treat Myxazin for 5 days straight so if you're concerned about Ammonia or NitrIte use a little Prime or Superchlor. The Myxazin wont affect your bio.

If they are still alive after that lot, keep changing water daily. Give them a break from meds for a few days and then get some Praziquantel stuck in to them for flukes and worms. If the little guy that you think has holes in his head does actually have them (any white poop hanging around?) he probably has hex. If that's the case then you need to medicate them (and his tank mates) with a product to get rid of flagellates, my personal choice is Octazin by Waterlife but opinions vary. If all that works then the Gods are smiling on you and all will be well!

I know there are many opinions regarding growing out Discus in a high Ph but personally I feel a Ph of 8 is asking for trouble in a few directions. I have tried straight out of the tap at 7.8 -8.1 and have settled on 6.5 across the board for both breeders and grow outs. My fish seem happier, alot more active and generally healthier in a lower Ph. Maybe it's just me thinking they do but it seems to suit me and them.

The very best of luck, we all need a bit from time to time keeping Discus.
MAC

[Merrilyn]

Craig, that's very sound advice from MAC. Waterlife products (Myxazin and Octazin) have been off the market for some time, but fortunately your local fish shop should be able to get them now. If not one of our sponsors, Age of Aquariums can supply.

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/

Please let us know how you get on.

[newfish]

Thanx for the replies Mac and Merrilyn.

Sounds like I got the full house of nastys!!

I will remove the new plant (the only other new thing was the fish...).

I have Myxazin already so will treat (after I do the water change as it is dosed with broad spectrum meds at the moment).

No white poop that I can see but will keep an eye on it. Not to far from SLS so fine for meds.

Corys will be tricky to relocate but will try and round up another tank.

Should I do anything with the filter with all these meds going through the tank?

With regard to the PH, from what I've read chemical options to lower it don't seem that great but are there any other options when it is 8 straight out of the tap?

Craig

[Merrilyn]

Well, this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't be adding anything to alter the pH other than reverse osmosis water at each water change. If you can't get hold of a unit, you might find some aquarium shops in Sydney sell it. Go and have a talk to Kev or George at SLS. What they don't know about fish isn't worth knowing.

[mistakes r crucial]

Craig,

The best of luck with treating your fish and I hope they come through it OK.

I don't know what meds you've been using (Broad Spectrum) so can't comment on them but your filter should be fine with the other Waterlife products I mentioned.

As far as Ph is concerned, probably the gentlest and maybe the safest method to lower it is with peat but if your water is very hard/hard to start with it won't work real well.

If you are able to successfully use it you will still need to keep an eye on it as peated water, in my experience, travels without regular water changes. My water is very soft to start with and the Kh is 0 after using peat.

I will probably get crucified for this but the only chemical I use for lowering Ph is hydrochloric acid. I find it doesn't mess with the TDS like Ph Down and working with 7000 litres of water it's cost effective. However, I NEVER get acid anywhere near my tanks, I have a 3000 litre aging tank and it all gets adjusted/tested in there. It takes a fair bit of practise and you have to "know" your water. If you get it wrong it won't be by a little bit, it'll be by 3-5 points so if you're going to try it be VERY VERY careful.

As far as your fish are concerned right now, personally I wouldn't mess with the water at all. In my experience healthy fish will cope with far larger Ph swings than many will believe but sick fish have no chance. Get them right first and then work on the water, slowly.
MAC

[newfish]

You're not wrong re SLS!! I will have chat to them.

There is a vast improvemt with all but two fish - color has returned, slime is still there but a lot less and they waiting for me at the top of the tank for food.

Keeping the fingers crossed for the other two and will keep up the water changes and meds.

I'm still puzzled by the nitrate as in the space of a week I have done 40%, 60% and then 50% water changes and it is still very high??

oh, and I think I will avoid the acid test....hopefully there will be no crucifiction :D

Craig

[mistakes r crucial]

Great news Craig! I hope all goes well with the other two.

LoL, no crucification here as yet! We all have our own opinions but one or two people elsewhere on the internet either didn't understand water chemistry or thought I was using a 50/50 mix of acid to water. The fact I was using it did not go down well at all. Each to there own!

With regard to the NitAte have you tested your tap water straight out of the tap before and after aging?

Again, best of luck with your Discus.
MAC

[newfish]

Thanks for all the help.

A much happier tank.

There are signs of hex so will treat.

Cheers,

Craig

[Merrilyn]

Glad to hear your fish are improving. We love a happy ending.