DISCUS - LYING ON SIDE

[Ray.M]

I just came back from being overseas and I have on adult male discus lying on its side on the bottom of the tank.
The kids tell me it happened suddenly about a week ago. Initially the discus was very dark, almost black but has lightened up when he was transferred to a quarantine tank.

He tries but can not wright himself.

Any leads on what could have happened and suggested treatment.

The kids treated him with metro for about 5 days - rate 10mg/l - no real improvement.

Thanks,
Ray

[Mr Wild]

Very difficult with only that to go by. Change 50% of the water and get it fresh and clean. Then I would do a dose of epsom salts and see what he passes, this could give us a clue. If nothing after a few hours then worm, both these treatments are not harsh but could have him brighter quite soon.

If he does discharge something lets us know what it is a picture would be good as we cannot see his fins, gills etc to help to diagnose the problem and of course I say all this not knowing what the water params are like so we really do need more info.

[Ray.M]

Thanks Kath,

What dosage of epsom salt ?

I dewormed them before I left on holidays - both treatments.

Ray

[swifto]

hi,1 tbl spoon per 40ltrs.

[Mr Wild]

Yep thats right! Have he pooped yet, what does it look like?

[Ray.M]

He is still alive but still on the bottom of the quarantine tank on his side.

Monday: I dosed with epsom salt - 2 tbs to 40 litres but no improvement and no discharge.

Tuesday: Have added salt to the water - 1gr/l + metro @ 20mg/l.

If the metro does not work is there anyother type of antibiotic to try - I have nothing to lose !!

Thanks
Ray

[Mr Wild]

How is his breathing compared with the others?

[xrboy_85]

Hey Ray,,

when you ask for help it is a good idea to do as the guru's say, swifto advised at 1sp/40 ltrs so why dose 2/40??? then add metro on top.

If a race car comes in and the driver sais he'd like a little more turn in on the front end, the mechanics dont then go and muck with his rear suspension as well and just add some extra pressure to his tyres cause they're clever and they can do they?????

[Ray.M]

Hi Kath,

His breathing is similar to the other fish.

No real improvement at this stage but given how sick he is he may need a few days to show if it is helping.

I treated with epsom salts a day before a response was posted at a rate of 2 tbs per 40 litres as the going articles on the forum suggested between 1-2 tbs per 40 litres . In any case it certainly did not hurt him.

If anyone has any CONSTRUCTIVE comments it would be appreciated to save this beautiful fish.

Thanks,
Ray

[ILLUSN]

Hi Ray sorry to hear about your fish. It sounds like a swim bladder problem. In the qt tank I'd be rising epson salt at 1 tbs/40L this will stop the fish from retaining too much water in his tissue and give the swim bladder a chance to recover. Adding metro will stop any infection from getting into the swim bladder and help control any infection already there.

If your fish doesn't recover in a week or 2 I'd put it out of it's misery. You should start seeing results in 5-10 days

[Ray.M]

Thanks Jothy,

Do you keep adding epsom salt with every water change ?

That is, say 50% water change each day (20 litres) add 0.5 tbs epsom salt ?

Is there any benefit adding 1gr/l aquarium sea salt also ?

Thanks,
Ray

[ILLUSN]

re dosing the epson salt is a good idea as you said if you do 50% put .5 tbs in.

salt and epson salt work in opposite ways salt balance ionic stress so kind helps water move into tissue, epson salt drive water out.

you use one or ther other not both at the same time.

hows the fish doing?

[Ray.M]

Thanks Jothy,

No real improvement although he has been trying to swim without success.

He appears to have a sore on his body - halfway up near his gills. it 'appears' like he has grazed it with the skin removed.

I am doing 50% water changes per day + epsom salt + 10mg/l metro.

Will give it a few days.

If things don't improve do you have a humane way of putting down a fish, I don't like to see things suffer ?

It's sad how quickly a fish that appeared healthy can turn around.

Ray

[Ray.M]

DIRECT LINK TO SOME PHOTOS

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx245/Ray_M_bucket/IMG_0766.jpg
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx245/Ray_M_bucket/IMG_0767.jpg

[Nev]

Thanks Jothy,
If things don't improve do you have a humane way of putting down a fish, I don't like to see things suffer ?
Ray

Place it in a container and place that into the freezer section of you fridge, slows down then and eventually shuts down the metabolism. Fish don't suffer.

[lpiasente]

You can use clove oil. then put him in the freezer

[Mr Wild]

Clove oil is the best they slowing sleep then just die I think freezing is terrible.

Search on this site for the recipe.

[ILLUSN]

looks bloated to me gut obstruction effecting swim bladder, notice how the eyes are starting to bulge.

epson salts will help stop the fish absorbing too much water, but if it doesnt pass the blockage it will die, metro will stop any infections getting in the wound liiks like a heater burn.

DO NOT FREEZE A LIVE FISH!

Get a small bucket or ice cream tub and fill with tank water and add an air stone. It's best if you can float this in a spare tank to keep the fish warm.

Place the fish in the bucket/tub and start adding clove oil 1 drop at a time( say every 30 seconds) untill the fish stops breathing.

Once the fish has stoped breathing add another 2-3 drops just to be sure.

After 10 minutes you can be sure the fish is dead, dispose of it responsibly.

[Ray.M]

Thanks to all.

The fish is still alive and 'seems' to be improving - is trying to swim!!

Will keep you updated.

I really appreciate all the help very much.

Ray

[Ray.M]

Sad to say but I have just put my Mosaic Eruption down.
I tried everything I could do. Metro, epsom salt, tetracycline and 50% water changes every day.
He was a fighter, he tried to swim but always ended up lying on his side.
He must have had a ruptured swimming bladder.
His wound was healing so it wasn't an infection that was stopping him swimming.
He hadn't been eating and was deteriorating. I looked after him for four weeks.
It was very hard to administer the clove oil and watch him die but it is better than watching him die slowly.

Thanks to everyone for their help it is very much appreciated.

[ILLUSN]

Sorry mate, sometimes It's the only thing you can do for them