Lots to learn

[maxpayne40]

Hi all,

This site is very informative and a real find for me as I see a lot of people in posts from Australia. I have looked around at a lot of forums lately and by far this one is one of the best if not the best on discus fish.

Now that gets me to my post. I decided to start again with fish after a long break. Previously had a red devil and it was such a pain with all of its antics of killing other fish, breaking filters etc that I gave up. I do have to admit its personality was the thing that kept me going for a while and no matter what I did to the tank I did not harm him, not that I tried intentionally.

My wife and I bought a 32 gallon (130 litre) aqua one tank 620T the one that is higher rather then longer. It came with a filter and we bought a heater and some other accesories.

Now that is the only thing it appears we have done right :?

We unfortunately (or fortunately) went into a fish shop and saw discus fish and immeadiately knew that was the fish we wanted.Being very knowledgable on fish matter we bought 4 of them, even asking the fish shop owner about out tank etc. We had at least run the tank for about 5 days previously, although I now know a lot differently.

Anyway we have had the four of them in the tank for about 4 weeks now and they seem very happy. I also added three bronze catfish (1 died but he looked stressed prior to adding him, although I only picked up on that after getting home). I have since added two peppermint catfish and 2 bristlenose.

Oh, I also went to another fish shop and the owner there told me all sorts of horror stories about what would happen to my fish and told me I needed a better filter as it is all about the filtration. So I now also have a 1500 external canister filter (bio mechanical with carbon, noodles, bio balls, clay, sponges etc) running alongside the 620T filter.

I know I have done a lot of things wrong and now know about cycling etc so there is no need to remind me :oops:

I have from reading forums understand some basic principles, like do not over feed or overstock (although some may say I have already done that), do water changes of 20% at least twice a week (some have differing opinions on this I know) and did I mention water changes?.

Currently because of my lack of cycling I am trying to make up for it with 20% changes every second day and have even started adding creek water (so no chlorine).

I know some will say that 4 discus is too few for a group and that four is too many for my tank but I do not have a bigger tank and do not want to give up my pets. I have had others tell me that my tank would support more discus once my cycling has taken place and with good filtration. I have even after four weeks got them feeding from my hand. They pay no attention to my arm in the tank cleaning etc and even swim close by and are not scittish. They have thier bad days and I can tell by thier feeding habits and there is the odd bit of bullying which flares up and for some reason changes pattern e.g. the one bullied last week is now bullying?. I am not familar with the types of discus enough to say what I have but I have a parrot blood, melon, possibly snake skin (both) and they are not too small but are not big either. They all look healthy and are feeding well and always looking for the next feed.

I also have a planted tank with driftwood and a large ornament that they hide behind sometimes. I have gravel as a substrate and the plants at fisht did not seem to be doing well, breaking apart etc but now seem to be doing ok. I did have to remove the dragon flame as that was just falling apart and clogging up the filter. I also keep the tank around 30 degrees celcius as that was what I was told to keep it at. I keep the fluro lights on for about 8 - 10 hours a day, probably too much so I will cut it down to 6 hours.

So far I have had algae problems which the bristle nose took care of. My bronzies and getting more like killer whales in size and are really very interesting fish (did not know that previously).

Also have those wriggly worms which I have read about in your forums and seems I may have to cut back on feeding (did not know how much to feed as everyone has different view) and vacum a bit more. I hope the four catfish will also help in this regard.

I also get the water to the same temperature prior to adding and use a water conditioner counter act the chlorine. I have read that small changes of 20% is good not to shock the fish etc.

Anyway I have a few questions after my long introduction. I now know a lot of mistakes I made so I hope I can at least make it better from now on.

1. How often should I change the water and by how much
2. What temperature is ideal for discus and other fish in tank
3. How often should I feed the discus at this stage (feeding frozen and dried bloodworms, beef heart and some small sinking pellets the fish shop owner sold me for about $30).
4. I wanted to add some cardinal tetras and some more catfish but am unsure if I should at this stage.
5. Can I do anything to assist the tank until the full cycling takes effect and how long would that take?.
6. Is there any maintenance (pills/powders etc) I should do for preventing diseases?. So far so good and thier droppings are black and solid. I also have a uv filter in the external canister so I hope that will kill parasites and 'bad' bacteria at the moment.
7. I have noticed some small snails which I assume are pond snails and hitched a ride on a plant I bought. I have read they are harmless and help with the eco system in the tank as long as they do not get to plague proportions.

Anything else you can recommend would be very appreciated. I hope the post is not too long but I have a lot to learn.

Cheers

[olsen3219]

hi there,dont feel bad mate i did all the above to.good luckk with it.i just keep reading forums

[maxpayne40]

I also have learnt a few little things that I hope are fine, like adding garlic to the fish food as a natural resistence to parasites and something I did not know was feeding the BN and bronzies blanched pumpkin and zucchini.

I shall try and post pictures of my scaly friends at some time. They always come to the front of the tank when I go near it. I know they think it is feed time but I like to think it is they like me.....lol.

I also know some will ask about PH and ammonia levels etc. I have a PH test kit and always find it hard to read the result but I think it is around 6 - 6.5 which I am told is alright. I have not got an ammonia test kit and I do not have any local fish shops around my area, except a nursery that sells some fish stuff and a few fish but no test kit for ammonia. I bought the BN off him but looking at picutes I think they are otto's if that is diffrent to normal BN?. I have to travel 50km's to get to the nearest LFS (I assume that is licensed fish shop?). My temperature as previous is around 30 degrees celcius and hope that is a good tempature for all.

Been looking at a lot of fish pictures on the forum and they are really great looking fish. I for one cannot tell the difference between a 'perfect' dscus and an average one, so one day I will ask you all to 'evaluate' mine :roll:

[ILLUSN]

1) OK the bigger filter wont hurt things if anything it will make your life easier so dont stress, theres nothing you can do about your cycle problem the best advice i can give is monitor the tank daily for ammonia, as soon as you read some do a water change, it may mean you have to do daily water changes for the next month or so but that cant be helped now.

2) 28-30c will be fine

3) feeding is easy. Feed as much as your fish can eat in 30 seconds 2x daily.

4) dont

5) no just daily water changes t keep the ammonia down

6) no the less you mess with them the better is any thing please just monitor your tank and adjust your water changes accordingly.

7 snails are fine your corys will eat them.

[BigDaddyAdo]

I am confused. You know your tank is way overstocked yet you are planning on adding more fish?

Your tank is not big enough for the fish that you already have. If you insist on keeping the 4 Discus you should get rid of everything else starting the BNs and Pepps. They are little poop machines.

You are setting yourself up for disaster IMO.

have you been testing your water?

[maxpayne40]

No I do not plan on adding anymore fish now as ILLUSN suggested. I am testing PH and making daily water changes along with vacuming the tank.

As I said previously I will have to travel to get an ammonia testing kit due to having no LFS in area. I rang the local garden centre that sells fish 25km away and they can only offer me a nitrate/nitrite testing kit but is that the same as tesing for ammonia?.

I will have to get one and have sent an inquiry over the net to one of the fish dealers that advertise here to get one if I can via mail.

I have already lost one peppermint catfish I think due to some relocation stress etc. so numbers are dwindling.

I have very clean water and after vacuming today the gravel substrate is a lot cleaner as not much come up in the vacum. I am hoping the extra filtering from the normal filter with the 620T and the other external cannister (1500lt/hr) along with regular water changes will keep things going well until the cycle kicks in.

BTW I was told by a LFS (200km away) who I bought the filter from that I could have more fish in my tank with the discus as it was all about the filtering. He also sells discus fish. I was also told by the LFS I bought my four discus from that my tank would handle four discus, I know he was selling me the fish but as a novice I was taking advice from the seller and he had a LOT of discus fish in his store and some were HUGE. Anyway I am here to learn about keeping discus. Also honestly the more I read the more confusing it gets, it would seem every discus breeder/seller/forum has a different view on feeding, water changes, ration of fish to tank eg 1 discus per 8 gallons or 1 per 40 litres etc, what is important in terms of water quality, PH levels to keep them (anywhere from 5.5 to 7), what to keep with them (some say angels some say not), bare bottom tanks over planted, gravel substrate good/bad etc. As you can see it can be confusing but so far I like what I read in this forum and shall ask about taking care of the fish here. If I sound like a NooB about fish it is because I am :D

I know you probably get frustrated with giving advice and then people do the exact opposite, I can only say it gets confusing as I stated everyone has an opinion. But at the least you are giving me a lot to think about. Thanks.

[ILLUSN]

A few little pointers to help you along
1 gal us = 3.9L
1gal uk = 4.5L so depending on what you read you need to adjust accordingly max stocking level should be no more than 1 adult discus per 40L (10 us gal or 8 uk gal).
If you test for no3/no2 you are only testing the middle and end products of the nitrogen cycle. Get online and order an ammonia kit that way you can test for the primary product. If you remove it the others can't build up. Don't mess with your ph just get the tank stable discus will survive from 4.0 - 7.9 they just like it stable.

Breeders like bare bottom tanks easier to clean = less work. Aquascapers like planted as they look pretty but are more work it's up to you how hard you want to work discus will be happy in either.

Don't believe a lfs that says you can stock heavier with enough filtration. The filters role in a discus tank is to breakdown ammonia to nitrate. that's it! cleaning the tank is the discus keepers job. i dont run any mechanical filtration in any of my tanks (except the sump in the lounge room). if you run mechanical filtration it traps dirt (it job is to trap dirt), if not removed constantly this rots and starts to acidify your tank (read up on "old tank syndrome) if you remove all the dirt and debri every water change (wipe down the sides let it settle then vac or siphon out) your filter and tank stay helthier for longer.

[goodoo]

I am assuming that your discus are still quite small about 6-7cms . If thats the case then your not overstocked yet. Although they will get "huge" like the ones in the store if you take care of them. Thats good because then you can get a real tank. If you want to keep Discus you will need one. If you want to keep little stunted discus in a tiny tank go nuts. I would say get three more, and a bigger tank. And a water storage device the same size as your tank or bigger. Then your current tank will make a nice hospital/breeding cos your gonna need one.

[olsen3219]

Hi,maxpayme40 would it help you if I sent test kit tomorro morning express? I know it's confusing I found that illusion is on the ball been following him on the forum & he has alot of knowledge.good luck with it all let me no if I can help in anyway.