TDS

[giorid]

G'day everyone and happy easter, hope you all had a good one. Just wondering if some can please explain if TDS is important in water prep when trying to get a pair to breed and if acid buffer is ok to use to dissolve the solids and produce a water that is both soft and with an acid PH. I would also use discus buffer to keep the PH stable. Also I was thinking of using rain water that is filtered through activated carbon and stored in a large rain water tank to replace RO water as the RO filter takes forever to produce enough water for daily use and it also needs to have minerals added to it or mixed with the right amount of tap water before it is suitable for use, sorry for so many questions, but I like my fish, your input will be greatly appreciated, thanks again.

[ILLUSN]

TDS is Total Disolved Solids, adding acid buffer will lower your ph and consume some carbonate (lowering your gH) but it will increase your TDS as you are adding a solid to your water (you are disolving acid buffer powder).

to lower your TDS use rain water or RO water , if it wew me I'd filter rain water through carbon and use that with a decent water conditioner and heating.

to be honest TDS really isnt that important, Id concentrate more on stable water chemistry with a lower ph (6-6.5)

[Mr Wild]

to be honest TDS really isnt that important, Id concentrate on stable water chemistry with a lower ph (6-6.5)

oooh Jothy I could not disagree with you more in that one statement. If he goes from Tap to rainwater in one swoop his fish will suffer an osmotic shock that could kill. Rainwater carries very little minerals and trace elements as you know, where is the calcium going to come from for fry development?

In my experience from losing fish through rainwater when I first started out I would recommend you only change the TDS by no more than 50ppm with each change until you get it to where you want it. I have used many of the different products to increase the TDS with a suitable range of minerals and trace elements that the fish require and I have found the tropic marin very good but a little exe. Currently I am using Aquasonics tropical salts (I think its called that). I pre treat the water while heating and airating a day before a wc. I have also found a TDS of 150-200ppm with a PH of 6.2 (my rainwater) has them laying really well.
In fact after a wc today the Cobalts I am selling have just laid another batch on the cone. I love it! HTH

[ILLUSN]

to true Kath sorry late and tired (hence the poor typing) i assumed he was already using acid buffer to modify the PH, sydney water is incredibly soft at the moment my gh is below 60 out of the tap (most likely why all my peppermint pairs have started spawning).

make any changes to water chemisrty slowly, i personally dont moniter my TDS but from my other parameters i know its on the lower side.

[Ghoti]

Currently I am using Aquasonics tropical salts (I think its called that). I pre treat the water while heating and airating a day before a wc. I have also found a TDS of 150-200ppm with a PH of 6.2 (my rainwater) has them laying really well.

Close enough Kath!

Aquasonic Tropical Water Conditioner is what you are after. $12 per kilo online (plus postage). The mob I get it from has $7.50 fixed priced postage so I take the opportunity to get other stuff while I'm at it :D

Cheers,
Scott

[giorid]

Ok, thanks everyone, but I'm still wondering if it's alright to use seachem discus buffer or seachem neutralizer instead of using aquasonic tropical water conditioner which contains salt, making the water hard and meth blue which would kill the bacteria in the filter and cause a nitrite or ammonia spike and eventually may even kill the fish, thanks again.

[Mr Wild]

Ok, thanks everyone, but I'm still wondering if it's alright to use seachem discus buffer or seachem neutralizer instead of using aquasonic tropical water conditioner which contains salt, making the water hard and meth blue which would kill the bacteria in the filter and cause a nitrite or ammonia spike and eventually may even kill the fish, thanks again.

There is not enough meth blue for it to do anything to your bacterial colony and the "salts" that are in it are minerals and trace elements, that the fish need.

Re the seachem discus buffer or seachem neutralizer you have to understand what they do to your water, sure its fine to use but what water do you have now and what do you want to make it? What is your current PH and TDS tell us how far you need to lower it and more advice can be given.

[giorid]

Hi Kath, thanks for advice, my PH is 7 after the water is run through the fluval activated carbon but I'm switching to seachem activated carbon so that the PH isn't affected, and the TDS of the rain water is very low about 18 and it then climbs to 35 after it passes through the activated carbon, I'd like the PH to be around 5.5 to 6.0. Also I was wondering if the low dose of meth blue in the water over time would create super bugs and that when I do need to medicate for disease it will no longer be effective, thanks again, max.

[Mr Wild]

I have been using it for awhile now with no problems and I know of others that have only used it and they say no worries as well so that is the only advice I can give. I have never done a side by side study with it and another product, but I have used Kent RO Right found it great but when the shops ran short I was trying everywhere to get it as it was not even in the country, that scared me off and that is when I went aquasonic as they are in NSW so I figured supply should never be a problem.

I run a PH of 6.2 straight rainwater and I build the TDS to 150ppm for spawning and raising young when I want the pairs to rest I lower TDS to 80ppm where they seem less happy to spawn and I know they get a good rest and feed for a few weeks before I build them back up.

If your rain water is acidic just stick with it changing PH is problematic at best and discus like stable PH. Also only raise your TDS by 50ppm or LESS each time. So if they are in 200 drop to not less than 150 and so on with each change, likewise if you want to increase the TDS as well.

HTH

[mawhins]

Great thread Giorid. Hope you dont mind if i ask a question or two here as i hoping to receive Mr Wilds said cobalt pair soon and want to get the parameters right.

How are you measuring TDS? I suspect you all have fancy monitors built into yoir RO units. Do the hand held units do an adequate job? Seems a lot easier than doing regular kh anf gh tests.

Also, how concerned about pollution in rainwater should i be given i live on the outskirts of brisbane. And would safe/prime help to reduce heavy metal or other contamination?

[MavG]

Hi Guys,

I previously worked for Aquasonic up until thew start of the year, and i have worked alot with electronic monitoring and i can tel you now that TDS is not really an acurate way to meaure the dissolved solids in your water. and here is why.

gH is a better parameter to more than TDS. As TDS is the number of total dissolved solids in the water body that have electrical current measured by an electronic meter, there is no way to know what is in your water when measuring TDS.

TDS is NOT a good measurement to use, because it uses a conversion factor to convert the conductivity reading to TDS, the raw reading is conductivity, which is a better reading to use because what you see is what you get.

In hydroponics there is a set conversion factor to convert the mS or uS conductivity reading to ppm TDS, many studies have been done on this and a conversion factor for hydroponics has been determined and manufacturers or fertilizers state the TDS that will be achieved when dosing their fertilizer nutrient into a hydroponic system. Because each aquarium is different, there is no way of knowing what conversion factor to use, therefore your readings can be MASSIVELY inaccurate.

Also, a TDS measurement/level recommended by one person, may be different to what another person is reading, because the TDS factors they are using on their monitors are different.

Then you go into the calibration solutions used for the TDS monitors, giving different conversion factors for each different calibration solution standard using different salts for the same ppm value.

For instance, a 300ppm TDS calibration solution using NACL might use a conversion factor of .55, a 300ppm TDS calibration solution using KCL might use a conversion factor of .72, a TDS calibration solution in using 442 (40% sodium chloride, 40% potassium chloride and 20% sodium bicarbonate from memory) might use a conversion factor of .62.

So even the calibration solution you use, even if you change the the conversion factor back after the calibration, will produce a widely varied result compared to another monitor using a different calibration solution.

so TDS is a very inaccurate and widely variable measurement that has no place being used in Aquaria because there is no set conversion factor to be used (considering every water body in every aquarium is different) and because of the different calibration solutions available that make each reading massively different for the same body of water depending on which one you use.

A much more accurate reading to use would be conductivity, you can then compare the conductivity reading to a PPT reading (as conductivity is used widely to measure seawater and there are set conductivity readings for each ppt reading in salinity) and then by subtracting your gH you can see (roughly) what the excess amount of salts is in your water.

G

[Ghoti]

Hmmmmm....who am I?

Former Aquasonic employee...

Really useful info, backed by research...

Name starts with G...

I am...

Gareth??????


Cheers,
Scott

[MavG]

wow, yeah i am, didnt think anyone would know me on here. Scott from Fishforum yes?

[mawhins]

Bummer, should have known it wouldnt be that easy.

[MavG]

is that directed at me mawhins, because whatever your laying down im not picking up, im a bit daft this arvo, been weeding the veggie garden all day!