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nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 07:20 AM
I have a pair of discus who has been spawning every single week for the last 4 weeks, like clockwork. Needless to say i did not get any successful wrigglers.. every single time the eggs get eaten after the 2 day mark.
I am not sure if the male is actually capable of doing his 'duty'?
The first spawn was the most successful both in number of eggs as well as some eggs turning color to somewhat blackish in color. Is that a safe indication that the male is indeed male and is capable of fertilizing hte eggs? please refer the photo attached. Is that considered fertilized eggs? unfortunately something spooked the female on the last day and she went berserk and ate all the eggs. Subsequent spawn, i was not around, the entire batch never made it past the 2 day. THe next 2 spawns i happen to be around when the female laid the eggs. the male was always closeby, but did not seem to be fertilizing the eggs as suggested by some forum. he was attentive and did the whole nine yards, ie shimmering, cleaning the site, sucking the eggs, blowing at them, fanning and all. BUt nothing close to what looks like fertilizing the eggs. any idea what the window is for teh male to start deposting sperm before the eggs are no good? i could see his oviposter/organ .. so i guess he was interested. Is that due to immaturity? (I inherited the discus so i have no idea how old they are.. but they are pretty decent sized).
So back to my main question, does the first photo, with darkened eggs indicate that the male indeed is capable of fertilizing the eggs, and if so, why would he not do his job the subsequent spawns? any ideas?

Since the eggs disappear the morning after i am not sure if the subsequent batch of eggs turned white to determine if indeed it is due to unfertilized eggs or the eggs were of poor quality

Any thoughts would be appreciated..

First Batch of eggs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/07092010027.jpg

Most recent Spawn
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/06102010050.jpg

swampy1972
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 07:44 AM
The darker ones look fertile to me - but I'm no expert :(

Maybe you could try putting a mesh screen over the eggs to stop them being eaten. At least that way you'll know if any hatch.

"New parents" also generally take some time to get it right, so you may need to give them some more time.

boxters
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 07:47 AM
They don't look fertilized to me. You could have 2 females or the females eggs could not be viable

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 08:28 AM
They don't look fertilized to me. You could have 2 females or the females eggs could not be viable
thanks.. any idea what fertilized eggs should look like? The female has been consistently laying eggs while the 'male' has not.. although both would shimmer and do the mating dance.. i have tried looking at the tubes, and they look different to me.. the male's sharper and longer while the female's tube is wider and fluffier..

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 08:32 AM
The darker ones look fertile to me - but I'm no expert :(

Maybe you could try putting a mesh screen over the eggs to stop them being eaten. At least that way you'll know if any hatch.

"New parents" also generally take some time to get it right, so you may need to give them some more time.

thanks.. i actually have a mesh to quarantine the all the fishes instead.. as you can see they ignore the cone and likes to lay on the wall.. making it hard to set up screens. That's what i thought when i saw discolored darker eggs.. so i thought the male is good to go.. but I really don't see any effort on his part to fertilize the eggs. Am i going anything wrong? Maybe i should not be looking at them, but the female has no issues with me watching her lay eggs..

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 08:56 AM
Video of Female laying eggs and 'male's behavior
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/th_02102010008.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/?action=view&current=02102010008.mp4)

boxters
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 10:23 AM
two females will go through the mating ritual just like a proven pair. Fertilised eggs are light in colour with a black dot in the middle.

boxters
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 10:26 AM
i have looked at your video a few times now. I hate to dissappoint but im 90% sure they are both females.

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 11:55 AM
i have looked at your video a few times now. I hate to dissappoint but im 90% sure they are both females.
bummer.. thanks for the ID.. that actually explains a lot.. guess i wasn't prepared to face the facts...

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 11:57 AM
two females will go through the mating ritual just like a proven pair. Fertilised eggs are light in colour with a black dot in the middle.

do you actually see the black dot immediately or after a day or two when it's closer to hatching?

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 12:53 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/th_Spawn.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/?action=view&current=Spawn.mp4)

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 12:56 PM
i have looked at your video a few times now. I hate to dissappoint but im 90% sure they are both females.
bummer.. thanks for the ID.. that actually explains a lot.. guess i wasn't prepared to face the facts...

Here are some closeup shots of the 'male'.. would someone help confirm the sex? thanks heaps

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/Male2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/Male.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/MaleOrgan.jpg

nejnoj
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 12:58 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/tenderMoment.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/DepositingEggs.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/Deposit.jpg


And the happy couple
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/nejnoj/pair.jpg

boxters
Thu Oct 07, 2010, 09:53 PM
Where do you live? You are welcome to come to my place and I'll show you what a true male looks like.I have around 50 to look at

nejnoj
Tue Oct 12, 2010, 12:36 AM
i have looked at your video a few times now. I hate to dissappoint but im 90% sure they are both females.

make that 100%, i finally saw the 'male' laying eggs last night. :D

Is it possible to 'break up' this pair if i add another male into the tank? Or once they've paired up that's for life? I am not clear if they are choosy and even if i add another male, i would get a new pair? Is it worth trying..?

ILLUSN
Tue Oct 12, 2010, 01:57 AM
DISCUS DONT PAIR FOR LIFE find 2 nice boys and your all done.

Merrilyn
Tue Oct 12, 2010, 08:17 AM
Good call boxters :D

nejnoj, ILLUSN is right, they don't mate for life. The two girls have been laying because healthy young females will fill with eggs and they have to get rid of them somehow. In the absence of a male, they will go through the motions of spawning.

Get yourself one or two nice males, and watch the difference.

nejnoj
Tue Oct 12, 2010, 09:04 AM
thanks y'all... will go fish hunting this weekend .. get myself some strapping young lads