weird behaviour

[carmy]

ok....i have a question, my cac fry were doin really well had about 30 odd...now mum and dad were still together as she was not attacking him at all but today i come home and there were only about 10 to 15 fry left and dad was chasing mum away?? and he looked like he was eating something and all of a sudden he spat out 6 fry!!!! what is goin on???? they wernt hurt, they swam away....but obviously some have been eaten as there are many missing. has this happened to anyone? is this normal? should next time they spawn i take dad out even though things are fine??

Thanks, Carmy

[steph]

hi carmy

not really sure but some males like to get involved in brood care, they often (males and females) will carry babies in their mouths to get them out of danger. instead of removing the male try giving him something to do - more dither / target fish to chase.

how old ar the fry - you could try taking them out at this stage - i find by about 3 - 4 weeks they start wandering around the tank and need less maternal care.

cheers

steph

[carmy]

hey, thanks Steph...i just took him out and put him in my community tank for now, i new that they do move the fry around but he definitely ate some coz half are missing now lol they are about 2 and a bit weeks now i think. mum is heaps happier with him gone so it's all good now!

[Hassles]

G'day Carmy

As Steph has stated, male Apistogramma do 'occasionally' undrertake brood care duties. Apistos will often suck their fry into thier mouths and spit them out where they want them to stay which, if not observed previously, can be alarming. It is not a habit of Apistogramma to predate (eat) their fry but they will kill them if the parents spawn again soon afterwards as the fry will be considered a threat to the new spawn. As to explain your losses, hmm, I really don't know. Generally after a couple of weeks the fry are becoming robust enough.

Segregating the parents is necessary if the spawning tank is not large enough. Many of us do this regardless 'just to play it safe' as the usually over-protective females kill the males in defence of the brood.

As I have often stated, breeding Apistogramma is generally pretty easy, keeping them alive is the challenge and in this regard experience will be your greatest teacher.

take care

[carmy]

Thanks Glenn, and yes i think next time i will move him out rite away. And also i had a question for you to! i havnt set up the breeding tank for the trifasciata because i have been busy so they are in my community tank. The male is quite aggressive towards the female and i am worried about putting them in a smaller tank together, he gets on better with the male cac lol i have just set up the breeding tank and it is currently cycling...it's a 3" by 1.5 by 1.5, do you think that is enough room for her? or should i think about getting a couple more females so it's not all on her?

Thanks Glenn

[carmy]

Oh oh and how is ur holiday????

[Hassles]

Thanks Glenn, and yes i think next time i will move him out rite away. And also i had a question for you to! i havnt set up the breeding tank for the trifasciata because i have been busy so they are in my community tank. The male is quite aggressive towards the female and i am worried about putting them in a smaller tank together, he gets on better with the male cac lol i have just set up the breeding tank and it is currently cycling...it's a 3" by 1.5 by 1.5, do you think that is enough room for her? or should i think about getting a couple more females so it's not all on her?

Thanks Glenn

The trip was great thankyou - was good to back in Europe. Loved Vienna, loved Bratislava (Slovakia) and loved Poland.

Regarding your trifasciata - hmm, bit hard to advise. I find its the male who is usually slow to catch on to the breeding game not the other way around. Perhaps however he's just being nasty. Let the trifasciata pair be for the moment and re-evaluate the circumstances once your breeding tank is ready. Also be aware of the problems associated with breeding in newly set-up aquariums - this is not the most conducive environment for newly born fish but....I have done this myself and realised success.

If memory serves me correctly I think Kristina had similar issues with her trifasciata which have since bred.

If you have concerns make the breeding tank complex with heaps of stuff, broken coffee mugs, empty food containers will suffice until decent rocks driftwood plants etc can be established - looks terrible but...

In my absence I lost 4 fish. 2 juruensis, the male agassizi fire-red and the male nijsseni. My nephew (as usuall) did a stunning job with his fish husbandry. I was expecting worse.

take care

[carmy]

Thats awesome to hear :) does your nephew keep many fish of his own? And the tank i have just set up is new but not too new, it has some stuff from my community tanks canister filter and alot of plants...should be ok...i hope lol

[Hassles]

Thats awesome to hear :) does your nephew keep many fish of his own? And the tank i have just set up is new but not too new, it has some stuff from my community tanks canister filter and alot of plants...should be ok...i hope lol

G'day Carmy

My nephew has one tank of his own which houses two female A.macmasteri, a few pencilfish, dwarf loaches, a solitary calico bristlenose and a couple of neons plus plants. He's pretty sharp and last time I was abroad he managed to get two pairs of A.trifasciata to breed :wink: So this time around I'm back 2 days and find A.pullcapaensis fry emerging - my big news this week. hmmm I wonder how I can get the credit for this - ponder ponder ponder heh heh heh

take care

[Hassles]

The motions made by a female Apistogramma in attempts to attract the attention of her chosen partner are similar in ways to the manner in which Apistogramma act aggressively. If the male misinterprets these motions this may cause him to act aggressively. Keen observation and experience will alert you to those situations that demand your attention. Some pairs will court more aggressively than others. I have found that the patience of the female can fluctuate if her chosen partner isn't willing to 'play the game'. She may lose and re-adopt her breeding colouration and this cycle may continue dependent upon her perseverance. We can often fail to notice the often subtle signs that denote immediate danger. These signs can all too easily be missed resulting in the surprising death of one of our fish. These signs can in fact be so subtle that many Apistogramma breeders simply choose to rehouse the male once the fry emerge to ensure they're not unknowingly risking the wellbeing of one of their breeding pair. Experience taught me much and I lost too many fish in my early days so I offer this advice based upon those experiences. There is no given set of rules 'set in concrete' that govern Apistogramma behaviour. Some pairs will happily engage in brood care. Some females will happily look after the fry while the male 'appears' to be protecting the territory. Some pairs will breed again soon after the emergence of the initial fry and begin to predate these as they will then be considered as a threat to the second spawn and I must emphasise "SOME". As I frequently mention, breeding many Apistogramma species is quite easy, its keeping them alive which presents the real challenge. Great things to do is frequent this forum, invest in the Cichlid Atlas and be ever watchful of your fish. Always measure water parameters (PH, GH, KH, temperature) once the fry emerge and keep these details in a journal for future reference. This is done as temperature and other water parameters can influence the gender ratios of the offspring.