Heckel Discus

[wild_amazon]

I like to know if anyone has managed to breed wild heckel (pure strain)?
I used to keep discus over 10 years ago and have not seen any tank raised heckel.

[Merrilyn]

No not me - maybe Rod?

[nicholas76]

Havent seen wilds at all :(


not in the past 5 years anyway.

now theres a market niche for some one out there!

[kevkoi]

There was a batch of wilds that came in from a big wholesaler recently. Had 3.5" heckels on it.... Price was good, except the fish were just scrawny. :cry: Lots of work to bring around...

kev

[Dave76]

My LFS had 3 wild heckels in a few weeks ago - looked very nice - they were going for $75 IIRC

Nice looking fish - just didn't have a spare tank for them :(

Dave

[wild_amazon]

So noone (in the world) has managed to breed wild heckels? I thought someone would have done it by now.
I used to have a couple long time ago but like many wild heckels they stopped eating and died.
$75 for wild heckel is pretty cheap. Which LFS was it if I may ask?

[Mattzilla]

they can be bred....it's just a matter of that they are not readily available in australia as they are in some other countries. they are bred in captivity but they are much more demanding than our domestic strains. they are very much available in america and are extensively bred there....as well as other countries of course.

if you really want some in australia...you can get them but they are poor quality and veeeery expensive. get yourself a good quality breeding pair...get them to breed....raise the fry....and you'll make a squillion in oz...but good luck...you'll need it

[dreamer]

if i see nice looking wild heckel for $75 each i would've bought them without second thought!!!! maybe its worth while to get them ship from perth ...

matt: i dont think pure heckels are extensively bred in america, it just that they can get them easily from south america.

[weird]

$75 is great ... I would buy them for sure.

A local fish shop (I do not buy from them and only went in there because I have not been in a LFS for 4 weeks and am suffering from withdrawal) is trying to sell stunted velvet ridden baby discus for that much ... .

[wild_amazon]

I went to LFS last night and saw 6 wild heckel. They are about 3" tall and asking for $110 each. Maybe it's easier to keep them from youngs rather than the full size ones?
--
Now I have a 4x2x2 tank that I use to age water. It has trickle filter etc. But if I use this tank to keep discus I will have to change water with tap water. Will this be a problem for wild heckel or discus in general?

[Merrilyn]

Are they genuine wild caught. Ask to see them feeding before you take the plunge. They sure would look good in that 4 footer. Could you get a cheap food grade, plastic bin to age your water. Wouldn't like to do water changes on wilds without being aged.

[Ben]

With all the talk about heckels ,are there many F2+
tank bred heckels around. I was going through a couple of my books on discus and heckels, even though a little plain have a wonderful quality about them, maybe its that big, thick black 5th strip.

Kev, your the man, do you get many tank bred guys come in from overseas? Apparently , asia is not very big on the wild sorts.

If anyone has them i would love to hear about it!

cheers,
Ben

[kevkoi]

U get heckel crosses once in a while... Not many have cracked breeding the true heckel.

I've got one heckel x red turq.... looks... errrm, errrrrrm..... :lol: Would have prefered heckel x brown.

kev

[discusme]

Hi wild_amazon,

Which LFS ? I just want to go and have a look.

Cheers,
Ronny

[wild_amazon]

It's Veba's

[discusme]

Thanks wild_amazon.

[Ben]

Ok, explain this please.

why is it albino discus can be bred with success and they are around, but it is difficult to get pure tank raired and bred heckels??

please explain.....

[wild_amazon]

Few years back I saw an article written by Jack Wattley. Basically he has given up trying to breed Heckels. Nobody knew why they didn't breed in the tank. From this thread I don't think anybody know why still. Heckel is the only strain that is very difficult to breed as far as I know.

[discusme]

wild_amazon,

Did you buy all the heckels ? I went there and they are all gone.
I only got to see the price tag :? :(

[wild_amazon]

No I didn't buy any.
They can bring more in if you ask them or maybe you can ask kevkoi (might be cheaper).

[dreamer]

if kev have them for that price ...they will be swimming in my tank 8-)

[wild_amazon]

Maybe the wholesaler had a special for wild heckels. The same LFS had full size heckels for $175 few months back.

[Budi_Armyn]

Well, this is a very interesting topic, since breeding wild heckels is my obsession also. I have tried twice about 10-15 years ago, but unfortunately fail. In Indonesia, I haven't heard a single success story. Some of Indonesian breeders do have heckel cross. One of them is heckel crossed with marlboro and one of the offspring become grand-champion in a national discus contest 5-6 years ago. The problem with the offspring is the percentage of the offspring with clear and thick fifth-bar is very small. Sometimes we only got several fishes in one batch.
If you have Asian Discus Book (1st edition), you can see that there is a breeder in South Korea who is specialized in breeding Heckel-Cross.
Hoping to hear success story from others in another country!

regards,


budi armyn

[wild_amazon]

Hi Budi,

Can you tell me a good place to see discus and tropical fish in Indonesia? I am going to Jakarta for few days this month. I just want to have a look since I am not allowed to bring fish back to Australia.

[Budi_Armyn]

Blue Diamond,
There are quite many places to see in Jakarta regarding fish hobbyist.
Just tell me your main interest : is it tropical fish or discus. Can you tell me when you will be visiting Jakarta? Maybe I can arrange my time, so I can accompany you, at least on Saturday or Sunday or maybe in the afternoon (during weekdays). Next week, I'll be out of Jakarta until March 12th. BTW, if you don't mind, you go to Jakarta on business or on vacation?

regards,


budi armyn

[wild_amazon]

Budy,

You have pm.

[G-1000]

I have looked into the subject of breeding heckels and it seems to be simple enough.

On simply discus there was a thread about "heckel spawning" where a guy in america had spawned two wild caught heckels and had offspring to proove it.

He reckons you need temps around 31 degrees, very large size fish (or fish that you have grown to a large size), very soft water, pH around 6 and good solid diet for the few months leading up to a period where you want them to spawn.

Understandably keeping water very soft whilst at pH 6 would be very difficult by itself, let alone adding into the equation the relativeness sensitivity of the heckel breed.

G

[kevkoi]

Didn't find that they were "sensitive" when I had some wild heckels in my care... They were as easy (or difficult) as any other discus. After a while, they were feeding on just about anything, beefheart included. The 5 sent over to SLS after 3week quarantine in Penang were kept no different to any other discus and they fared very well.

As for breeding, the Penang breeders have a problem breeding pure heckels, but that does not mean it cannot be done. Good luck if you're intending to try.

[Squid]

Heckles can be bred. I've had 2 spawns from wild blue faces, and some from a pineapple pair (willischwarti's) a few years ago. Australia's premier Heckle breeder is a pilot in the Army. Name withheld at this stage (due security reasons on the net). He was going to go full time in discus, but got the flying bug. He is based in Sth QLD. He and I are going partners next year. From him though - he has bred most of his heckles in a pond in QLD - and some in Sydney. I've found that my discus breed far happier in pond setups - you have to treat them just like any other commercially bred species, and apply basic aquaculture science and techniques. So for those that are downhearted about breeding them, It can be done. Also - F1's from wild blue faced Heckles are available from Townsville at the moment! I'm in pakistan at the moment, but when I see him next, I'll get him to join this website (he's a bit apprehensive for some reason). I have some good photos of spawns back home, so I wont be able to show you until around March!! Damm it

[Squid]

The trick to breeding Heckels is water quality and their environment. I have only seen them breed in a convential set-up twice, and then they ate their babies at the free swimming stage. As my old aquatic toxicology lecturer at the Aquaculture school in Tas used to say "Dilution is the solution to pollution". In a tank situation, they where in 5x2x2 (approx 1000lt) with a biofilter underneath. The biofilter held about 300lt in its sump. The females tend to be the key. If they get spooked, then the shows over. Our tanks where at the back of a dark shed in the tropics, so cooling was a problem! Males will tend to pair with most hybrid females often. Now for water - pure rain water with a black water suppliment. Ph's got fairly low, but with that much water volume, the water doesn't get too unstable. No spawning cones, just old aged logs/snags from other tanks and heaps of them. They would look around for ages for suitable spawning sites and seem to feel safe in the snags. The same for the pond setup, except no gum leaves or any aromatic natives nearby. The ponds are commercial plastic prefabricated ones at around 2000 lt capacity. Heaps of Spatiphyllums (in the water also and in pots)lillies and pot plants around the edge for extra cover. Shade overhead and a few wide planks to hold the flyscreen on the top and provide extra shade. The adults were introduced around Sep and let go until about Feb or until fry around 20c piece were seen. By doing this they get a real photoperiod change and a moon. I still think the photoperiod/moon combo was the trick. You know that muggy build up before rain? - they always spawned near a full moon when a storm was brewing. Feeding was via a stick with prepared diets (fish fuel/home made etc) 2 time daily. IE LEAVE THEM ALONE! You're probably all saying 'well thats fine and beaut in QLD where you can do this" You're probably right, and I'm worried about Toowoomba because its not as hot as NthQLD. There is also the possibility of hormone inducing females, but that doesn't stop them from eating their young if its not entirely the right environment. I will experiment with this next year.

So to sum up. Move to QLD! - just joking. You need to provide excellent water quality and heaps of it, good or natural environmental queues (photoperiod/temp manipulation - pond is great for this as they get to experience a season just like back in brasil), natural spawning surfaces and hides/snags.

These are just the things I've done and seen, and I've had success on numerous occassions. If you want further info from me, just give me a pm or ask on this thread. I'm no expert by any means! I'll have piccies for you in March

Squid

[Ben]

Once again Tony that is great information and thank you for sharing!

I wonder if the same "pond style" could be replicated in the southern parts of Australia, heated with a pond heater...?

I would have to say breeding wild heckels is done the wild way.

Cheers
Ben

[Ben]

Very unnatural and slightly controversial but i wonder if the wild heckels eggs could be hatched and raised artificially......?


*a complete contradiction to the post above!