Need help with a sick Discus.

[Tommyc]

Hi Guys,
I'm writing because I need help with my juvenile pigeon blood. I had it for about 2 months and have yet to see it eat anything at all. Obviously, it's size and weight are below what I would deem to be healthy.

The water parameters are all within healthy limits and the 6 other discus in the tank are healthy and eat ravenously. I have attempted to treat this little guy in a medication tank using Prazi for fluke and tape worms and also a course of antibiotics.

Nothing changed during or after these treatments apart from a whiteish substance being excreted by the fish. More recently, I've noticed it's dorsal and tail fins deteriorating. It often sits at the back of the tank, away from the others and isn't very active.

Any help would be appreciated, Thomas.

[Mr Wild]

Hi there

I would isolate the fish in another tank or tub away from your other discus. Are any othersd showing signs of white poop?

Sounds likeyou need a course or metronidazole which I get from the vet. Do you have a vet that is helpful?

Any food grade container will do as a hospital tank - make sure you add air and be prepared to change 50% or more water each day with pre-aged aerated and heated water.

[Tommyc]

Hi Kath, thanks for your input. No other fish have white poop. I've only taken dogs and cats to the vet over the years so not sure whether they will be helpful with that drug but will have to call and see.
Cheers
Tom

[Hollowman]

Tommy, you really have not given us any info to help you properly. I know nothing of your water parameters, 'within healthy limits' means nothing tbh. We need to know numbers:Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte, Ph Temp. Also how often are you changing water?

Putting a small fish with existing stock was a bad move right away. It probably got stressed by the bigger fish and never got a look in at feeding time.
The other thing was that you did not mention QT, it (the new one) may have picked up a bug from the existing stock, you are lucky that you never killed the lot.

White faeces, being under-weight sounds like a worm problem borught on by stress and possibly poor conditions. A slow methodical approach to treatment will work better than bombarding them with all nature of meds.

What temp are your fish at ? Metro would be the next med of choice but good water and regular changes will help a lot. Do you have photos?

H

[Tommyc]

Hi Hollowman, although I'm relatively new to discus keeping I'm certainly doing everything possible to help this fish get better and to keep it from getting stressed.

The fish in question was one of four discus purchased at the same time from the same tank at the fish store. They, until recently were the only discus in the tank. The only other fish in the tank is a small ghost knife, the tank has live plants.
I purchased them all the same size to try and limit feeding issues. Two months later (last week) I then purchased two more larger discus, firstly because I liked them and secondly thought it might encourage more excited feeding due to it being more competitive. The healthy fish are certainly more lively at feeding time but this approach didn't help the sick one.
I've spoken to staff at a couple of stores and they recommended the two medication treatments i've tried as well as offering different food options, so by no means am I bombarding the creature with anything I see off the shelf. I should mention I did try epsom salts after reading some posts off this forum.

Tanks conditions are- temp 30c, ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, nitrate generally 0-5.0, PH-6.8, GH is often around 140ppm but fluctuates. Water is changed 2-3 times a week, around 30% each time.

I'll try to get a picture up tonight.

Hope that answers your questions
Tom

[Hollowman]

Ok, at least that fills in the gaps Tommy. So the fish was sick before you bought the new ones right?
Some fish will get stressed and will stop eating, sometimes there is nothing you can do to save them. Metro as mentioned might be the next step. Not sure where you can get it from in Aus' although I am sure the guys can help you locate some. But what AB did you use before?

Your water sounds ok and good water changes are fine too. Are you able to watch the fish at feeding time? sometimes they are sneeky eaters. Sometimes even after treating, which you have done, it takes a bit of time for their appetitie to return, maybe raise the temp for a few days to see it starts to eat again.

I look forward to the photos and news of it eating soon

H :)

[Tommyc]

Hi Holloman, thanks for the info. Yes unfortunately the fish has been sick since I first purchased it. What is AB? It seems like metro might be the way to go, although after searching the web it seems very difficult to locate in Aus.
I did however find something called Polyp lab medic30ml on the age of aquariums website.
http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=4537
Hopefully someone can take a look at this and tell me if it's suitable, it says down the bottom of the description the active ingredient is metro, would this do the job? It's not cheap.
Photo's will have to wait till tomorrow, need to charge the camera.

Cheers
Tom

[Hollowman]

AB = Anti-Biotic :wink:

[Tommyc]

Finally had a chance to get the picture up. As you can tell from the image the small pigeon blood isn't feeling to well and looks very thin.
Is metro still the go? and is Polyp lab medic30ml a good choice.
The antibiotic used was called Aquari-cycline tablets, broad spectrum AB with active ingredient Tetracycline hydrocloride.

-Tom

[Hollowman]

Oh dear, it doesn't look very good to me. I think lots of things are going on with this one. It looks very thin, I would like to see a head on pic, but looking at it, it does look very pinched. The head on pic would probably show the forehead being very sharp, not rounded like a healthy fish. I also see the fins are looking very ragged and torn. So a really poorly fish imo.
Just for your info Tommy, and this is probably not your doing at all, but the fish is severely stunted. By this I mean that the fish has not grown properly. Generally down to poor environmental conditions when very young or just poor raising. The eye size and the rugby ball shape are the give away signs. The eye continues to grow in the early stages oflife, and should stay in proportion to the body size, when the fish stunts, the body effectivly stops growing, and the eye gets bigger, like in your fish. The shape also elongates, giving the rugby ball shape, whereas, it should be rounder. There are some good threads on stunting and what to look for and avoid here.

Ok at the end of the day you want to know what to do for the best. If it were me, I would euthenias the fish. The fish has many problems and the time/effort/money spent on getting it to survive will not be worth it imo. Others might have different ideas, but this is my honest opinion. If you want info on how to euthenaise in a humane manor, look up Clove Oil in the search.

hth :cry:

[lpiasente]

poor fishy you get metro from a vet.

[Tommyc]

Thanks for that info hollowman, of course it's not the answer I was hoping for but one that makes sense and is what I had started thinking. I think it is a stunted fish too, a front on picture would just reinforce that point as it is very thin. It's very frustrating trying to do everything to help the fish and it wont even help itself by eating something. I'll have to think about what direction to take with this animal, but clove oil may be the best answer.
Again, thank you hollowman for your assistance. Your comments have been more than helpful.

Tom