younger discus growth in tanks with substrate

[Benno]

hey guys another got another question for yas, ive read on a few sights now that keeping smaller discus in tanks with plants and substrate is probabaly not the best thing for there growth and well being with quite a few people tending to prefer bare bottom plantless tanks. My plan is to have a 4 foot tank with only a thin layer (1-2cm) of sand as im not a fan of bare bottom and ill only be using plants that can be attached to bogwood as to make gravel vacuming easier. Uneaten food in the tank will not be a problem as this tank is also goin to be home to an army of cory catfish to perform the cleanup duties. my tank will be gettin 2x 50% weekly water changes and at this stage willl be running 2x 1200lph cannister filters. So can anyone see any problems with this tank that are perhaps not going to allow my discus to grow as quickley as they can? as im a little worried about stunting my fish. I am not going to be purchasing tiny juvinile fish either, im looking to by fish that are already the diameter of the bottom of a coffee cup so they will already have a bit of growth under theyre belts. Any answers will be greatfully appreciated guys, thanks for the help. Ben

[Love Discus]

1200 lph x 2? that might be a bit too much current for discus. Dont get me wrong they like current just make sure they have a place where they can all rest, and dont have to fight the current. 2400 lph is just ton of water movment for a four footer IMO.

[swampy1972]

Your filtration output flow can be dissapated by clever use of spraybar placement etc so that will be something to look into. Basically they just don't enjoy rapid flowing water.

Don't fall into the misconception that young CANNOT be kept in planted tanks, they CAN... But if you're after the rapid growth rates of the breeders then you'll struggle. The reason being that in order to turn over their fish quickly they need to make saleable size asap, so they're feed much like battery hens. Max food + max water turnover = Max growth rate = Profit.
People raising A-grade for showing do much the same in order to get the very large fish seen in contests.
For the average person like us, keeping them in a planted tank poses no problems as long as their maintenance regime is good. You won't get the extremely rapid growth rates because you won't be able to feed as hard but they'll be fine and they'll still grow to a good size given enough tank space.
All the best ;)

[Hollowman]

Dont get me wrong they like current .

NO THEY DON'T NO NO NO!!!!! :shock:

Do as Swampy says, disapate the flow with a spraybar or sponge.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Dont get me wrong they like current

What the ????????? :roll:

[Love Discus]

You guys may laugh, but my fish are happy in a little current. One side of my tank has moderate current, and the other side has almost none, my discus are always right in front of the powerhead enjoying the current getting some exercise. Wild discus IDK, your discus IDK, but MY discus definatly enjoy current.

[Love Discus]

Dont get me wrong they like current

What the ????????? :roll:
Get off the internet, go to your favorite pub and pick up a fat chick, AWESOME :roll:

[BigDaddyAdo]

Dont get me wrong they like current

What the ????????? :roll:
Get off the internet, go to your favorite pub and pick up a fat chick, AWESOME :roll:

:?: :?: :?:

:? :? :?

[Hollowman]

I am afraid you are quite wrong. :shock: Discus do not enjoy a current. The only reason you see them in the current is because they would be swept around the tank if they did not swim against it. These fish come from still pools, or extremely slow running waters in the wild.
You might think they look like they are enjoying it, but they will become stressed and start to hide, become sick and stop eating. Beleive me. I don't talk from my rear much, nor do the many respected members here. Why do you think discus are the shape they are?? they are not built for fast water or they would be long and streamlined, not tall and flat.

Loose talk like that can make noobs think it is the norm, when quite clearly it isn't. :roll:

[swampy1972]

Why do you think discus are the shape they are?? they are not built for fast water or they would be long and streamlined, not tall and flat.

And here I was thinking it was so they could cut through the fast flowing water like an athletics discus :roll: :lol:

Sorry LD but you couldn't be more incorrect.. and what's this about?!?

Get off the internet, go to your favorite pub and pick up a fat chick, AWESOME

If you don't like a response to your post is this really necessary :roll:

[BigDaddyAdo]

Why do you think discus are the shape they are?? they are not built for fast water or they would be long and streamlined, not tall and flat.

And here I was thinking it was so they could cut through the fast flowing water like an athletics discus :roll: :lol:

Sorry LD but you couldn't be more incorrect.. and what's this about?!?

Get off the internet, go to your favorite pub and pick up a fat chick, AWESOME

If you don't like a response to your post is this really necessary :roll:

And can you believe that i didnt bite !!!!!!!!!!!

[swampy1972]

And can you believe that i didnt bite !!!!!!!!!!!

Nope!! You must be maturing in your old age.. :lol:

[BigDaddyAdo]

Or just getting lazy.......

[boxters]

i tend to disagree slightly here. I have been a commercial breeder of discus for many years and had the luxuary of working on some of the overseas hatcheries. I agree that discus born in the wild should not be exposed to exesive water current. I have a wild tank and believe me they hate it. As for the tank bred fish most people have , they are accustomed to high water flow. Some farms overseas actually raise fry in the drain side of their sumps where water flow is at its highest. They dont fish these guys out untill they reach jumbo size. The only reason for barebottom tanks is the ease of cleaning. There is no difference in growth rate, but beware as old food will get trapped and could cause sickness.

[Hollowman]

i tend to disagree slightly here. I have been a commercial breeder of discus for many years and had the luxuary of working on some of the overseas hatcheries. I agree that discus born in the wild should not be exposed to exesive water current. I have a wild tank and believe me they hate it. As for the tank bred fish most people have , they are accustomed to high water flow. Some farms overseas actually raise fry in the drain side of their sumps where water flow is at its highest. They dont fish these guys out untill they reach jumbo size. The only reason for barebottom tanks is the ease of cleaning. There is no difference in growth rate, but beware as old food will get trapped and could cause sickness.

That may be the case, but we dont want anyone new to discus to be under any impression that this is not the norm when put into our 'hobby' tanks.
Too much flow WILL cause stress, discus do not like fast flow. I have also been to the larger farms in Singapore, and even though some fry might get sucked into the sump areas and left, it again is not the norm for raising discus.

[swampy1972]

The only reason for barebottom tanks is the ease of cleaning. There is no difference in growth rate, but beware as old food will get trapped and could cause sickness.

If hobby tanks were fed at the rate and intervals of the commercial breeders the tank would be fowl by the end of the first few days; remembering that most commercial ventures conduct either 100% WC everday (or multiple times a day) or run constant water replacement setups that hobbyist cannot keep up with.

I have kept fish on hobby tanks in both setups and feeding appropriately to those setups. The bare bottom tank setup with large food intake and large water change regime grow much faster.

[Hollowman]

To add to that Swampy if I may. Raising fish in substrate/planted setups do restrict the growth rates as people hesitate and forego the large and frequent water changes because it upsets their plants. :shock: This is done to the detrement of the fish, that generally stunt and suffer.
There are the odd exceptions to the rule, but not many.