couple of questions

[Kaza]

Finally after about 10 attempts, I got wrigglers at least some progress. However the following day they all slowly dissappeared. Immediatly they had all gone the parents were back cleaning the leaf and shimmying at each other.
Ok I am guessing this happens because they are inexpereinced, however
the parents laided on a leaf most of the eggs were lost to fungis should I take the plant out and just leave the breeding cone? Is it best to have one with a lip? Or use a piece of pipe
Do you still leave the airstone going?
My heater fluculates between 30 and 31 is this to much?
I am thinking of buying a couple of the Aquarline 300w stainless steel heaters suppose to be very precise. Does anyone know if they are good.

[Trebs]

Best temp is 27.5-28.

You really need a better side than a plant leaf if you want to be successful. Either use a piece of PVC pipe on a steap angle or get a tall terracotta pot from a nursery. You should be able to get one about 20cms tall and 12cms in diameter. The ones I got cost about $1. Don't worry about a lip or a specificly made breeding cone, the pot is just as good.

What is the ph? I've found this to be the biggest factor on spawning success. 6.6 or lower is fine. Anything neutral or above - forget about it.

[Kaza]

Thanks Trebs
Ok dropped the temp to 28, took the plant out and put in 2 different cones. Ph is 65. However out of the barrel aged the ph is 7. I change 30% 3 times a week the ph in the tank usually sits on 65 -66but I will test it every day for a few days to make sure it is stable.

One of the problems I think is they laid on a plant leaf which had algae on it, when the eggs went white they then developed a hairy white type of fungus. The wrigglers were all over the top of this.

These babies took me by surprise, but I am ready and armed now so fingers crossed for the next attempt. Cheers

[Sean]

Just a thought, I always use methylene blue since seeing the difference it makes when trying to artificially raise fry. Usually i get about 90-100% hatching. I use just enough methylene blue to colour the water and seems to work a treat - if I do not use it, I lose about 30-50% eggs to fungus.

[Trebs]

Meth blue will help, although it will also effect your filter. IMO meth blue will make an 80% hatch rate 90%, but won't make a successful spawn out of a unsucessful one. Get the conditions right and Meth blue will be the icing on the cake...

This is were you're investment in an RO pays off. Can you get ph 6.5 out of it? If so, w/c's with the same water will be much better than the slightly alkaline. If you can't, stop the water changes a few days either side of spawning, constant conditions are most important at this stage.

[Merrilyn]

Hi Kaza - great to hear that you pair got to the wriggler stage. Now at least you know that you have a true pair, and they are capable of getting wrigglers without eating their eggs. From here on, it's just a matter of time before you have a successful spawn.

I wonder if they accidently ate the wrigglers in an attempt to get rid of the fungused eggs. Removing the plant is definately the correct thing to do, and they will soon accept the cone as the right place to lay eggs. Give it a good scrub with salt and hot water before putting it in the tank, to minimize the chances of fungus.

Slight temperature fluctuation is acceptable. I'm sure there are slight fluctuations in their natural home in the Amazon. I am using one of those stainless steel heaters on one of my tanks, and find it is exceptionally accurate, and no danger of glass breakage.

I don't use methylene blue in my breeding tanks, because it tends to wipe out all bacteria, both good and bad.

Good luck with your next spawn.

[Kaza]

Thanks for your help Trebs and Ladyred. I could get the PH lower but it worries me with the KH on 0-1 if this may make conditions more unstable.
I am happy with the breeding pairs tank now, they yesterday were paying a lot of attention to the filter intake tube but I have covered that in filter wool and now they are cleaning the pot. So fingers crossed.

[Kaza]

ONG this afternoon my female was very dark and had a little bit of white stuff on her fins. I wanted to give them a rest and clean them out before they produced again. I added salt to the water and a bit of fugal aid to help with the cotton wool like stuff on her fins. Left the light off all day tonight I turned it on to feed them when I saw the biggest clutch of eggs. She only ate the last of her babies on Sunday night. I am now wondering was the first clutch not big enough for her she only hactched out 16 and then they slowly diesappeared. Maybe she thought they wer'nt worth her time.

Now my questions what will salt and fungal aid in the water do to the eggs? Tomorrow I will change 50% of the water and again the next day. I will also add geoliquid to the water. However I think they wont hatch because of the salt and medi's. What to you guys think.

[Merrilyn]

Discus can do strange things, and yes, I have seen pairs i gnore or eat a small hatch and then go on to raise a huge family next time round. We really don't know what motivates them, that's part of the challenge.

I'm not sure what is in the meds you used, but if the base is methylene blue or something similar, it will be ok. My main concern is what effect the salt will have on the eggs being able to take up the sperm in the water.

[Kaza]

Thanks Merrilyn, this particular pair lay eggs twice a week, so hopefully the salt wont affect the eggs but if it does I am sure she will lay again soon.

[flukes]

Dont try to change too much, as they say if it works for you then thats fine. Unless you know there is a sure problem, other wise just let them get the experience.