Considering some apistos...

[Barracuda]

Hi everyone

I currently own kribensis (my only experience with dwarf cichlids), and have had quite good success breeding them. I was recently recommended by a friend that I should give apistos a go - are they any different to keeping kribs?

My plan is to maybe get a pair and keep them in their own seperate tank - and hopefully get them to breed. Do certain apistos breed more readily/are easier to keep than others?

Thanks

[Robdog]

Give them a go mate. They are great fish. Bit smaller than kribs but just as big personality wise.

Some are harder to keep than others and those are normally the harder ones to breed too.

[Barracuda]

Thanks, so which are the "easy" types ;)?

[jluna]

start with a. cacatuoides or a. agassizi. a mature tank really helps them settle, so get the tank started, or seed it from an older tank.

a pair by themselves are very cool - but you MAY find them a bit skittish without a small ditherfish. small tetras, only three or four of them, not essential, but if you do find the apistos hiding a lot it could be that.

they need lots of cover, driftwood, caves etc to be really happy. you'll see more of them if they've got plenty of places to hide, as they'll feel a lot safer.

this tank has a pair of a. hongsloi in it, 2 small peppermint bristlenose and 4 cardinals.

[Barracuda]

wow, thats a nice tank! how big is it?
would the dither fish get in the way of them breeding, ie will it eat the fry?

[jluna]

that's why you only put in 2 or 3, never a bigger group - they attack from all angles and even decoy for the others to attack. of course if you want the best breeding, no dithers is best. the tank is an AR620, holds about 90 litres.

[Barracuda]

Cool. So do they do best in pairs or harems, or is it different depending on the species?
Also, if i were to have only a pair, would a 30x40x30 36L tank be sufficient? Or do they really need a 2fter?
Thanks

[Robdog]

Pairs are good for small tanks and harems better for larger ones.

You could have a pair quite easily in that size tank, but if they breed, the female might decide that the male is a threat and beat him up if he can't get far enough away.
In other words be prepared to relocate him if need be.

[Rod]

Some species will work in Harems....some are best as pairs

Size of tank depends on whether or not you want to raise fry with parent/parents....or you want to maximise fry numbers

Commercially they are breed in small tanks....eggs are removed and hatched separately but you can also remove male after spawning...female once fry are free swimming and shift fry to a larger tank later.....

I've raised cauc's with parents in a 2 foot tank(heavily planted!!!)
Bred trifasciatus in a 22cmx25cmx32cm tank....but removed male after spawning etc

Generally females look after fry and male moves on to find another opportunity... :wink:
Males may get a beating in a small tank

[Barracuda]

Thanks for the advice

So, currently I have 2 ideas in mind. Which do you think is the better, with the idea of breeding/keeping fry at a higher success rate?

1) Keep a pair in the smaller tank, and remove the eggs/fry, keeping the parents in there to spawn again soon, hpefully (which brings another question - how often do they spawn or is it again dependent on the species?)

2) Keep a pair/harem in a 2ft tank, and let them keep the fry in there? (or remove?)

I would prefer not to move parents around, and would much rather move the eggs/fry. Are the eggs easy to hatch/raise artificially?

Thanks

[gingerbeer01]

Rule of thumb is 1 square foot per female and another 1/2 a foot for male. This means in a two foot you can only really have a pair. And if you breed in a smaller tank as Rod said you gotta get that female out quickly. Some fish will never breed in anything smaller than a two foot.

If you want a harem you are talking a 3-4 foot tank.

I would suggest always leaving the female in - they very rarely eat the eggs/young. Consider removing the male.

HTH
Steve

[Barracuda]

Thanks, so if i remove the eggs/fry, will the female still fight the male if i keep the parents in there?

[gingerbeer01]

when you remove eggs it can go either way - but pretty sure to go one way or the other.

[Barracuda]

Alright thanks
So any breeders or reputable sellers in Sydney so i can perhaps think about/decide on a particular species that are available?

[BigDaddyAdo]

I would go for a pair in a 2 or 3 footer. Leaving the parents in makes it a lot more fun to watch.

It all depends on what you want to keep. I was really keen on a pair of Trifasciata and had to get them shipped down from Qld.

I will pm where i got them from.

[Barracuda]

Just reading a few different websites, some people reckon that by removing the fry, you are taking away the inherited instincts of the parents not to eat their fry, so when these fry grow up and breed themselves they will likely eat their babies? Is that true - any experiences?

[Noddy65]

Just reading a few different websites, some people reckon that by removing the fry, you are taking away the inherited instincts of the parents not to eat their fry, so when these fry grow up and breed themselves they will likely eat their babies? Is that true - any experiences?

Ive heard that too...never made any sense to me and not my experience

I dont see how you can change an inherited instinct in one generation by removing fry....just doesnt make any sense. If it was a learnt behaviour then maybe yes...but these guys dont have a colony type breeding system.

Mike

[Barracuda]

Yea thats what i thought too - I was quite concerned when I heard that!
Well thats good to know that it doesnt happen, well at least not 100%

[gingerbeer01]

Egg eating behaviour is IMO more related to how comfortable and secure the fish feel.

With Rams I found 1st generation bad parents 2nd generation good parents. I put it down to the fact that the fish are comfortable and know there surroundings - and to an extent me.

[Robdog]

...some people reckon that by removing the fry, you are taking away the inherited instincts of the parents not to eat their fry, so when these fry grow up and breed themselves they will likely eat their babies? Is that true - any experiences?

Was flicking through Romer Cichlid Atlas today and found this:


...a portion of the behaviour of cichlids has proved to be learned. This may possibly include parts of brood care, and this learned process is obviously lacking in artificially reared specimens."

This was directly in reference to M. ramirezi but sounds pretty broadly aimed at all cichlids.
I don't necessarily agree with it but it is an interesting note in a pretty well respected "bible" of dwarf cichlids.

HTH