Rescued Discus !!! very sick

[simmo2302]

Photos a few posts down

OK

Background Info.

I saw an Ad for 2 breeding pairs (4 fish) of discus & a ghost knife fish, in a 3 foot x 15' x 18' tank, stand, etc ,etc. all for AU$130. very very cheap, so i knew there would be some catch.

I got there and i just couldnt leave these poor buggers to suffer like that or b given to a person who wouldnt spend the time or $ taking proper care of them.

their tank was filthy!, algae everywhere, they looked unhappy and were hiding behind 4 amazon sword plants. they have fin rot and the bridge of their nose (ie front of face between the eyes) is slightly caved in, not rounded outwards matching their round dinner plate profile.

the person i bought them from said she only changed the water once a month!!! with tank rain water, but didnt adjust the PH !!. she also said she worms them every 2nd month, and puts plant growth stuff in every week 4 the plants.

so i resuced them.

all 4 are about 10cms big. there are 2 turquoise (although i think 1 is a snakeskin x turk), and 2 red pidgeons.

one of the red ones has no pupil althought the outer lens over the eye has regrown (apparently got attacked by a previous tank mate)

i re-set up their tank, cleaned the gravel (was black) before putting it in, and am treating them with Pimafix (considering putting melafix in aswsell) to treat the Fin Rot.

i have kept 50% of their old water, and given them 50% new treated water. (treated with Prime water conditioner). i have also adjusted the PH to 6.0

i have some geo-liquid: discus aswell but m not going to put that in until finished treating the illnesses as it says it will remove treatments.

i have fed them a combination of proper discus dry food, aswell as i have gone and bought some decent frozen brine shrimp and frozen bloodworms
for them to try.

they did come with a AquaNova NCF-1500 canister filter, which propmtly started leaking from where the powercord goes into the filter. so as a temporary fix i have two old-style corner box bubbler type filters with some of the filter media from the cannister filter. (which wasnt much as the cannister filter, only contained 15 or so ceramic bio rings and 1 thin piece of filter wool pad.)


have i done the right thing ? is there anything else i can do to save these beautiful discus?

(P.s. i kno i m a fish nut. lol i already have a African Malawi Cichlid Tank, and a Tropical Fish Tank, i was considering starting a Marine Tank, but obviously higher powers had other things in mind)

[Hollowman]

Personally, I would have left well alone, who knows what you have introduced to your environment now. I would have offered to cull them for him, thats it.

In my opinion, melafix/primafix will do nothing but smell nice. Get some high res photos posted, and we can advise you better once we can see them.
For now, lots of good aged water, at least 50% a day change.

Steve

[ILLUSN]

discus are tougher then people think, bump your temp up to 30 or even 31C and add an extra airstone.

good clean water will do wonders for the fish change as much water as you can daily. if they are eating mix a little prazi into some frozen (400mg/100g) food and begin a worming treatment feed this mix 2x a day for 3 days then repeat in a weeks time.

[lpiasente]

you softie :D . Good luck I hope they all make it. I'd get some of mals blackworms and make a beefheart mix to help get the weight on.

[simmo2302]

they r in the own (old) tank / environment , so i havent put any other fish at risk.

they r eating a little, not too interested in tetra color bits discus food. but show a bit more of an interest in the blackworms. havent tried brineshrimp yet.

will work on the pics today.

[Hollowman]

Live brine shrimp should get them interested if you can get some.

[simmo2302]

For fish that sit pretty much still, they are hard to get a clear shot of.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/BigRed2.jpg

The biggest in the ank, Big Red is least affected by sickness, although is missing the pupil from one of his eyes (not shown)

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/Bluey1.jpg

Bluey has slight fin rot, and has gone slight black/dark on his upper half, stress possibly, took me ages to get these photos.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/DiscusTank2.jpg

Close up of the fish in the tank, the Fish in the front middle, M.J. , you can see his slightly caved in forehead.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/DiscusTank.jpg

Picture of the whole tank.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/LilRed1.jpg

Lil Red, big Reds mate. Fin Rot has eaten alot fo this top fin, and has started on the rest.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/MJ.jpg

Profile Shot of M.J. you can clearly see the sunken in part of his head. (to the right of the eye)

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/MrMrsRed.jpg

Photo of Mr & Mrs Red.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/MrMrsTurquoise.jpg

Photo of Mr & Mrs Turquoise.[/img]

[Hollowman]

tbh, i would cull both fish in the last photo. The one on the left is too far gone to waste time and effort on, the other is a terrible shape, badly stunted, get some clove oil and send them off peacefully.
The other two still look reasonably ok, yes badly kept, sick, and in terrible condition, but treatable. Put them in a bare bottom tank if you have one, you will need to keep on top of big water changes and maintenance to get them looking better, a planted tank is not the place for them right now.

Do a search for clove oil, there are a couple of threads here about how to use it.

Steve

[simmo2302]

well i dont think i'll be putting any to sleep. they wont ever be show quality, etc but i think they have a right to get better and live.

i now have the 2 air powered filters and a 700L/hr internal power filter.

the turks have both lightened up totally, apart from their black vertical bars no blackness at all, except for when i m mucking around in their tank, but their colours return shortly after i have finished so i think its just stress related.

i m a strong believer in Pimafix and Melafix. in my african cichlid tank and my angel /tropical tank, aquarium science brand products dont work the only thing that has saved my other tanks was cichlid strength Melafix and Pimafix.

so i think i will leave them for a week with dosing the tank with pimafix, then do alot of water changes for the following few days.

and see how they go from there.

oh and the brine shrimp was a hit, it got all their interest, but it is Little Red who seems to be eating the most.

i have seen most of them poop and it is black and sinks straight away.

they r all much more active, swimming up and down the length of the tank.

the pic is a bit blurry, but it shows that bluey has really lightened up. MJ (not pictured) still has alot of black around his face, he is the sickest after all. the 2 reds do seem to pick on the turks a lil bit, nudging and niping.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa304/simmo2302/new.jpg

[Hollowman]

well i dont think i'll be putting any to sleep. they wont ever be show quality, etc but i think they have a right to get better and live.

i m a strong believer in Pimafix and Melafix.

so i think i will leave them for a week with dosing the tank with pimafix, then do alot of water changes for the following few days.



Your choice, but the one that is just skin and bones imo is too far gone, and letting it live is probably the more inhumane thing to do.

I do not think you will find anyone here will recommend either prima or melafix. Experience has shown that it does nothing, not just my experience.

Whatever you choose to treat with, being in a planted tank is not the way to turn these fish around. Bare bottom is the only way to treat sick fish. period.
Water changes should be done daily at this point, and if you do insist in using your 'fix's' do a big water change and redose to full strength at each change.
I really hope you never paid too much for these fish. it could cost you a whole lot more to get them anyway near healthy again.
:cry:

[simmo2302]

ok, tomorrow i m going to bare bottom the tank.

do i need to sterilize the gravel ?

i am going to pull out the plants, but leave the heater and filters and half the water in the tank.

i am going to bomb the tank with Prazi as 1 out of the 4 has white floating poo (the other 3 r fine)

the PH finally hit 6.0 this morning, all of them r more active and interested in eating. even this sickest of them MJ is losing the black in his face- he actually has bluey tinged gil plates and his colours are returning.

the pimafix appears to be working, 90% of the cottony growths on the edges of their fins (fin rot) has disappeared.

my other question is that Metro is hard to get in australia, i have rung 3 vets and none of them have heard of metro or its trade name Flagyl.

should i persue trying to get the metro or will the prazi be enough? and can you use both at the same time ?

[BobbyBruce]

Hi Simmo,

Been watching this thread and I wish you all the best with these fish.

In regards to the gravel I recently removed most of the gravel from my tank using 16 mm plastic pipe as a syphon. Takes out the gravel fairly quickly and you don't get all the rubbish floating around the tank.

Not sure how you will go with the meds. Some others may have information on how to obtain and whether or not you can use in combination.

Good Luck,

Bob

[lpiasente]

Oh gosh meto is not hard to get at all but you do need to go to the vet. I just take a photo of the fish with the poop and I give them the dosage rates from here. What have you actually been asking for? Is it a jelly poo or a wormy poo? Metro is for hex so if it is just worms you would use the prazi and bigl. Good luck. I do understand where Steve is comming from but if yours a eating then you have a good head start.

[simmo2302]

@ lpiasente is there a trade name the vets sell it as. cos i asked for metronidazole and no one had eva heard of it.

i dont know the difference tween a jelly and a wormy poo, but i was more stringy than anything else, white and floaty. lol

[TW]

Hi, I will try to look at my bottle tonight for brand name, but your vet should recongnise it at that name. Where are you? If in Sydney, I can give you the name of my vet who definitely can prescribe metro. Very helpful guy & a forum member as well.

[simmo2302]

i m in Hervey Bay QLD. Just south of Bundaberg. there is basically nothing much helpful up here its a glorified old persons retirement town.

[TW]

Ok, well I'll look at my bottle's labelling tonight.

[TW]

Here are the details for the metro my vet prescribed. Brand is Alphapharm Pty Ltd http://www.alphapharm.com.au/products/a-to-z-of-alphapharm-medicines.aspx# and the particular product is Metrogyl 200mg http://www.alphapharm.com.au/media/39700/metrogyl%20200.pdf The active ingredient in Metrogyl is metronidazole.

You will need a prescription from a sympathetic vet or Dr. You should also go to the surgery armed with pictures of your sick fish & with a print-out from the medication forum with the dosage for metro. Without that, your vet may be reluctant to help you. This is because most vets in Aus aren't trained for fish & won't know the dose. I'd check over the phone when you make your appointment that they are prepared to talk to you about sick fish, as some vets weren't prepared to help me.

Anyway, good luck with your fish.

[simmo2302]

thankyou very much, i'll see if the prazi works. but i'll still ring a vet tomorrow and see about geting some of this just incase.

[lpiasente]

@ lpiasente is there a trade name the vets sell it as. cos i asked for metronidazole and no one had eva heard of it.

i dont know the difference tween a jelly and a wormy poo, but i was more stringy than anything else, white and floaty. lol
You will know a jelly poo when you see it. It looks like ....... jelly :D. I wasn't sure of the difference either until I saw a jelly poo. :lol:

[simmo2302]

hm.. i dont kno. the other fish have black, WIDE poop.

MJ has, well it looks like normal fish poo, rounded, and its white not black.

it will be 48 hrs soon since i first dosed the tank with prazi, and i havent seen any worms or worm segments

i will siphon the BB tank when th 48 hrs is up and do a water change, and i am going around to a vet tomorrow for some metro, so i can put it in their food. as even the sickest fish. Mj. is eating now.

lil red, is a guts so no worries about him! lol

[AHC]

Just saw this thread. Good luck with the fish!

I got my metro from a pharmacy. Just walked in and said i need to get some metro for my fish. My fish weren't sick and i was getting some metro to keep with my meds just in case. But the pharmacists didnt even care. She was intrigued by the use of metro with fish and gave me a little bottle of about 25 tablets. Even asked to let her know how it goes if i do need to use it. It wasnt as hard getting as i heard. But i guess i got lucky.

Anyway, my long point is, try a pharmacists!

As for the fin rot. You could try trimming the fins. I just had the experience of trimming the fins back on my Pigeon to fix a massive tear that was taking forever to heal. I used a lil bit of clove oil to put him to sleep. Then with sterilized scissors, cut the fin back. That was about 5/6 weeks ago and the fin has already grown back good as new - the colour comes back clear but i can see the colour now returning. I was very surprised and happy with the speed of it. There is a thread on here how to do it if you chose to do that. Good luck.

[TW]

Wow, Aaron. I think you were lucky with your pharmacist. I have asked for other AB's for my fish & been turned away without a prescription. I guess it is worth a try, as you never know your luck.

[simmo2302]

ok, i did a 50% water change this morning. didnt get round to going to the vet cos one of my boys turned 5 today, so that took up most of the day.

how long after feeding do you siphon the excess away?

i was thinking 2 - 3 feeds during the day, and doing a quick siphon every evening "x" amount of time after the last feed to clean up any excess food/poo from the day.

M.J. is goin good, havent seen a new poo since the WC after the prazi treatment but will keep an eye out. hopefully its no longer white! he eats lil bits, but seems to prefer to pluck things out of the water, rather than do 90* to feed off the bottom.

bluey, i think is just a Prima Donna, has started to colour up beautifully, no black at all, but as soon as i need to move or adjust anything in the tank, its fully black until i leave, then its full colour again ! she changes her mind with each breath.

the 2 reds r doin good (all they had was a bit of fin rot & the pimafix fixed that)

[lpiasente]

sounding good. The left over food should be cleaned up after about 1/2 hr so it doesn;t send the water bad. Cories are a good clean up crew they tend to eat all the left overs and I never have to clean anything out after a feed.

[simmo2302]

ok just an update. all fish seem to be commin along nicely. the white (jellyish) poop seems to have stopped.

all fish are eating ALL THE TIME they neva stop !!

the two sickest fish, the turks, bluey has coloured up nicely, alot of blue and red contrast, rarely goes dark anymore.

and MJ (the one that was near death) the sunken in head has started to come out, the black on one side of his face has totally gone, and is fading on the other side of his face.

i guess it just a matter of time b4 everyone becomes perfect.

i have a 2.5ft x 12 x 15 tank (w/ transfer pump & heater) underneath the 3ft discus tank, which i use as a water change tank, i fill it up, add prime and GeoLiquid Discus, then leave for 24 hrs, b4 siphoning out 1/3rd of the discus tank (approx 50L) and using a pond pump to transfer the new water up from the WC tank into the discus tank, all temp and PH ready.

the only problem now seems to bullying.

the 2 Red discus (Pigeons or Marlboros, i m unsure of their heritage) pick on the two turks alot, especially the sicker one MJ. even though the black is going away on MJ he has very srtong black stress bars, and has tanken to swimming face down all the time like he is looking for food.

i am looking for egg crate grille, but bunnings and mitre 10 do not stock any more and lighting speciality shops need to custom order as egg crate grille is not commonly used anymore. a 600mmx600mm "sheet" costs $150.

i am thinking of just getting some plastic and drilling holes in it, same general idea as the egg crate idea.

i have the 4 amazon sword plants in 2 terracotta pots to one side of the tank, making a shaded / hiding spot if need be. but unfortunately the 2 reds r quite viscious.