Triggering Angel Spawn

[Barracuda]

Hi

As some may/may not know I currently have one breeding pair in the own 2ft in which I am currently raising the fry in a seperate. This pair used to spawn regularly - once every 2 weeks, about 4 or 5 times now (without much success in keeping the fry). However, a month ago i decided i would take the pair and their newborn fry out of the main tank and put into their own 2ft. This worked successfully, as the fry survived and the parents still looked after them. After a week or so with the parents, and a noticeable die off, i decided i would seperate the fry into their own tank and leave the parents by themselves to hopefully spawn again.

This is now just over a month ago, and the parents havent spawned again since. I am trying to figure out how to trigger a spawn - when they first did it in the main tank it was purely out of suprise.

Below is a list of water parameters:
ph = 6.4 (same as main tank)
amm = 0
n/ite = 0
n/ate = 20'ish
Is this correct? I heard angels need lower ph - I have been using Seachem Discus Buffer (supposedly makes water soft as well) + Neutral regulator - the same as I use in main tank.

The 2ft is bare bottom, has a background, some floating plants, a large plastic plant, breeding cone (they used it last time) 1 large mature sponge filter, 1 500l/h internal filter
Small water changes every day/every second day.
Feeding tetra colour bits as usual.

Cant think of much that I have changed, apart from the environment. I would have thought that they would have been settled enough by now to spawn again.

Can you recommend anything else that I do to trigger the spawn? Would love more fry (considering most of the previous spawn have died)

Thanks in advance :)

[jluna]

i would stop the small water changes for 7-10 days, then do a 30 - 40% water change with water a couple of degrees cooler than the tank. this stimulates breeding behaviour in most river fish. also, most angels spawn consistently in the same spot, so don't move the cone once they accept it. if they haven't bred in this tank yet, you might want to also try changing the position of the cone.

[Oygle2]

G'day mate.

If you do a search on this site and look for posts by SQUID, you'll find a good description of inducing discus to breed and since angles are originally from the same water in the wild...............!

If you have access to rain water your situation may become much easier, rain water has lower Ph and is soft as well.

Just wait a minite.

This is what SQUID had to say. SQUID is the author of this - not me.

"Up here in the tropics, a storm build-up often sets a spawn. Down in Toowoomba where it is a bit cooler, I notice that during the summer, a water change sets them off spawning. Up here in Townsville - that hot still build up before a summer storm is the weather each day!! (and I'm getting real sick of it) - and water changes don’t seem to give a spawning stimulus as much. Now last week when the cyclone came through - all of my pairs spawned at the same time so I reckon they can sense the lower pressure air systems. All fish do it. I also breed cardinals and if I put the males and females separated in a 5 gallon tank by a partition, all I need to do to get them to spawn is wait for when a trough or low comes through - give them a 50% water change the day before - remove the partition and bingo. No fish of mine has shared water also - anyway, this is just what I've seen. Hope it helps

The key to spawning any fish is environmental manipulation. I studied aquaculture for 6 years and I can tell you that when researchers find a potential aquaculture species, they have spawned it and have figured out larval rearing in about 3-4 years.

· If you apply basic environmental manipulation to any species, they will spawn.

· If you think of a discus in the wild just before the breeding season.

· They are in very warm still water that hasn't flowed for a while.

· The toxin levels in the water are quite high also EG Nitrate, tannins, extracts from plants etc.

Before the rainy season,

· it gets hotter,

· days get longer (call photoperiod), and the

· air pressure goes from high to low.

After it rains –

· the fresh water cools the rivers,

· flushes out any residual metabolites,

· pH rises and

· water hardness decreases.

These are the major spawning stimuli for discus.

By manipulating these 4 alone - I have successfully bred Heckel discus on numerous occasions –

· although I also had to manipulate the photoperiod leading up to the spawnings.

A simple fact is that the fish in their tanks know when the rains are coming. That’s why breeding discus up in Nth QLD is a joy to watch. As soon as the wet arrives - Bingo - and I mean BINGO! Winter is for growing up fry around here.

Now in Perth - you will get good low systems coming through with the storms. - Especially with the cyclone up north. If you want to manipulate the environment, you will need to build a fish maturation room. This an enclosed environment room where you can manipulate the parameters I have already talked about.

Changing the atmospheric pressure is the hard one, so even if you manipulate most of the parameters, the fish will still spawn better in the Summer time when lows are dominant. Uni of Tasmania has a room where they can actually change the air pressure inside -very expensive and is used to try and trigger spawning of tropical reef fishes. They have used it and have spawned Heckels also. I have heaps of info on environmental manipulation - or you can jump on the net and look for more."

Hope this helps you out.

Regards

Mick

[jluna]

hehehe - that's what i MEANT to say! great post by squid. :D

[Barracuda]

Thanks guys
The reason I do the small daily water changes is to suck up all the poo, since it is only a bare bottom and the internal doesnt seem to be sucking up everything.
Anyway today i noticed them cleaning the cone (finally! :) so hopefully they will spawn soon. I also removed the internal, so that the eggs/fry wont get sucked in (if they do get to that stage). That means i will only have a sponge filter inside, so more poo will accumalate at the bottom. Is is still ok to do the water change weekly?

Thanks

[jluna]

they're not going to drown in their own poo in a week, so if it's not for aesthetics, then leave it. they'll be fine.