White spot

[flukes]

Learning my lesson i thought id ask before i do anything drastic -
All of my 3 discus seem to have little white dotts on their fins and some on there back, on each there about 6-10 little whtish dots, they kind of look like little air bubbles attachted to their skin. I was wondering if it could be white spot desease?? Any suggestions and other symptoms of white spot would be great! Also if someone can find some pics of a discus with white spot that would be great, so i could compare the two. Ive already done a larger water change (50%) but before treating i want to make sure it is white spot.

Cheers
Scott

P.S i know pics would help but I have to get my sisters digi and she is in one of those "moods". But ill try to get some, but in the mean time any comments would be great.

[Proteus]

ok, this is what I would suggest...

crank your temp up 1-2 degrees... the ich parasite dont like heat, and add some aquarium salt (NOT table salt or other salts) say at the rate of 1tblsp per 20L... that is the best not medicated way to get rid of white spot, for just about ANY freshwater fish...

[kevkoi]

crank it up to 29-30degrees C, use a proprietry medication for whitespot and all should be fine.

White spot is like the flu..... Temperature fluctuations cause an outbreak of whitespot. Keep it nice and warm and it shouldn't happen.

kev

[flukes]

Thanks guys,
I set the temp to 30c and wrapped the tank in towels so should get there soon (already 29), i added some multicure made from Aqua-serene, but only at half dose. This has in it methylene blue, malachite green and Acriflavine. Hopefully all will be well, I didn't have any aquarium salt on me so I thought the multicure at half dose over night will do till i can get some. Thats if i see no results.

Cheers
Scott

[Proteus]

If you have already dosed the tank dont worry about the salt...

I am a firm believer in the thermal/salinity method of ich treatment... in my experience I have had a 100% success rate with just about every type of freshwater fish that has succumbed to the ich parasite...

[flukes]

Well i used activated carbon to get out the multicure and then dosed a 3/4 amount of melafix, first time i used this stuff!! Smells like that chest rub stuff. Anyway it createlittle air pockets on the top of the water?? Can you use this product with a air powered filter??

Cheers
Scott

[flukes]

Actually now i look at it, it doesn't look good i dont know if it was from the melafix or because i made quick release taps for the canister filter out of garden hose equipment and didnt wash it first. But id say it was the melafix because i had it running a while before i put the melafix and there was no sign of these bubbles.

Its hard to discribe but its like a oil patch but with bubbles ontop of the water?

Make sense, iam confused :shock:

Scott

[kevkoi]

Melafix does create an oil-slick bubbly surface... Nothing to worry about. How are ur fish behaving?

kev

[luvfishies]

Also, Melafix doesn't kill ich, sorry to say. It's a mild antifungal/antiparasitic, but not near strong enough to kill off the ich parasite.

I'm with MollyMan/Proteus. Salt and heat is the way I go, it just takes a while longer is all.

[flukes]

Well its wierd, remember hen i said they acted likethey were really itchy?? well anyway now they dont do that anymore but the scopion snake, has 3 white dots on his back fin, about 4 on each gill and maybe 3 over the body. (More on fins than body) and the blue diamond just has a couple on his fins. The pigeon doesn't seem to have any at all.
The fish are establishing the pecking order so things are a bit crazy atm, the smallest pigeon blood wants to be king of the tank, so everyone's fighting but when i do a water change they all seem to stick together like a family. Also when feeding none seem to be missingout so iam not too concerned about that.

But yeah with these dots, at first i thought it was ammonia burns but ive tested for ammonia every time i do a ph test and its always 0ppm. For the first time today after cleaning my filter i had a little nitrite at 0.25ppm but i think it just needs time for the filter to get its bacteria working again.

But what should i be looking for if it is white spot?? Because all i see is the spots there is nothing ab-normal behaviour wise.

Cheers
Scott

[flukes]

Also about the temp, fluctuations. I bought a heater today so ill have to heat each 25ltr container till i can get my 200ltr going.

[Mattzilla]

salt and heat is the way to go....jmo

matt

[flukes]

Yeah well the melafix, didn't work (as someone stated (Thanks)).
The red SSS, is getting more and more, ot must be the temp fluct's, because when i do my water change it got down to 26c and then today with a warmer day and the heater it was up around 32c, i had the heater set on 30c.
So i turned the heater down to 28.5c and ill wait one more day till i use the salt, the reason being i am going to put some activated carbon in to get rid of any of the other meds.

So 1table spoon per 20ltrs right???????????
I dont like table spoon measurements because i dont have a measuring spoon, i just get the table spoon and fill it. But there is alot of diff. between a mounded table spoon of salt and a flat table spoon of salt.

Ill have to get a measuring spoon and some salt tommorow, but will the activated carbon effect the healing process of the salt??

I also saw in the pet shop today a white spot cure in a bottle, can't remember what brand it was. Do you think i am better off getting the white spot cure or using the salt method??

I know if i get the salt it is also good for treatment in other deseases, so it might be better if i have some on hand.

Scott

[flukes]

Well i could only go to one aquarium as by the time i got off my a*s it was the only one open. And what are the chances, that they had run out of aquarium salt!! Just my luck, but he did say the salt they stock it called red sea salt?/ or something similar. Is this what i need??

Well I got another treatment for white spot just incase because it seems to be getting worse on the SSS. Its made by Aqua Master and its just called Rapid white spot remedy.

Aqua Master
Rapid White Spot Remedy
Ingredients -
37mg/ml Formaldehyde
0.32mg/ml Malachite Green

Well this is directed at kev, cause you always seem to be in clue in what chemicals are the best. Should i use it or wait till Sunday to get aquarium salt?? (Cant get it saturday as i am working).

If i do my fish are going to have a good taste for malachite green as that was also in the multicure i was using to treate my imaginary flukes.


Cheers
Scott

[flukes]

Any comments on the rapid white spot remedy cause if iam going to treat it better be tonight......Anyone used it??

[kevkoi]

My dear scott.... Problems again I see? :lol:
Use the whitespot remedy... it works.
Dose it according to the instructions stated... u should see rapid results.

It will turn the water green I (Malachite green does that).

My advice is to:
1) Dose accordingly.
2) Switch off the aquarium ligthing as malachite green is light sensitive (it depletes faster with the light on.)
3) Cut back on feeding till this problem is over.

...... formaldehyde in the medication will get rid of the whitespot quickly, but on the down side it WILL knock back your filter bacteria quite a bit. :? (U win some, u lose some).

Since you ALREADY have a nitrite problem (in other post), cut back severely on feeding while medicating the fish.

RUN THE FULL COURSE of the treatment (In plain English, don't decide to abort this treatment 2morrow and change to using salt!!! STICK WITH ONE METHOD!! Stop switching :lol: )

Then once that is sorted, do a water change, check your amonia readings and nitrite readings and hope your filter kicks back quickly.

Got that mate?

kev

PS: How the H*LL did the whitespot get in in the first place? U been doing bloody large water changes with cold tap water or what? CRANK THE HEAT UP!! ... and for FISH sakes, please keep a heater in a discus tank. Whadaya think they are? GOLDFISH? SET it at 29degrees and check it with a thermometer. Keep it HOT HOT HOT... :lol:

[flukes]

Ok dosed according to the directions, and i turned the light off.
The reason they got them was because i was doing water changes with cold water, as iam yet to get my 200ltr drum kicking and heating 20ltrs is a pain. Also when i was doing water changes i had to turn of the heater because the water level dropped below it, but that too is fixed now because i ve layed it horozontally along the bottom.
Ill get a pump this weekend so i can start using the 200ltr drum, i already got like 4 heaters sitting there but they are 200watt and i couldn't be bothered heating 25ltr buckets, i know i know lazy, well learnt my lesson.

Ummm now abou the bacteria in the filter...should i try using some cycle?? or something similar? or maybe some more gravel from an established tank??

Cutting feeding?? like 1-2 a day?? currently iam feeding about 4-5 times a day.

Now should i dose every day?? i was thinking if not seeing any improvements too still cut down to half dose each day? What do you think.?


Cheers
scott

[Proteus]

unless you have done something already, I would 1/4 or 1/2 dose the tank with the med's until you can do a 50% water change and add some aquarium salt..

HTH

[kevkoi]

Don't do things in halves... if you want to zap it, just do it. Full dose. (If you've got Clown loaches in there... oh boy! take them out) The instructions on the bottle will tell you frequency and recommended dosage... Follow that thru.

If you're going to go the way of meds... FULL DOSE, no salt. Get it over and done with quickly... Dosing meds at half rates unnecessarily will only make the pathogens stronger (U've heard the saying, what doesn't kill you will only make you stronger? Ditto for the baddies too! :lol: )

Do it one way or the other.... NO HALVES.

After that's done... we can do water changes and work out the filter. ONE PROBLEM at a time. (Let's cross the bridge when u get to it ok?)

Geez... now I'm really sounding like Kev-fishcious....

[flukes]

ok i havent dosed the second day yet, i looked at them this morning and doesn;t look any better.. Ill dose again today but i am a bit worried about this killing the filter bacteria as then i have to deal with ammonia and nitrite. Ive kept the tank around 29c and i ll put it up to 30c today..

Cheers
Scott

[flukes]

Ahhh lucky i read the bottle again, it says dose again in 3 days. Nothing seems to have worked yet so ill wait the 3 days and try again, but he seems very stressed and showing dark bars.

How come he is the only one that has it??? isnt it contageous??

Also tested for ammonia and nitrite and there are none present i feed a bit this morning and ill feed once more tonight.

Scott

[flukes]

Ok well I cant seem to get rid of it, i cranked the heat up to 30c now and its the second day of treatment and no further signs of cure. Ill wait the 3 days and dose again but i thought there would be signs of cure at this stage...ah well all i can do is wait...

Cheers
Scott

[kevkoi]

Patience... is a virtue.

[flukes]

and i aint got it, that why i bought the RAPID white spot remover :lol: :lol:
Naa i ll wait it out...you never steared me wrong,,

[Mel]

Hiya

When i first got my lot they all broke out in whitespot, all
i did was crank the heat up to 90, added extra aireation
and within 10 days everybody was cured.....no meds
were added at anytime.I now keep them at a constant
86 and thankfully the little critters have never come back.

Mel

[flukes]

well its day 3 today, ive had the temp up around 31-32 (90f) but maybe iam hopeing for a miricle, i doesed again today but maybe its juts a time issue, well ill get back to you in a weeks time...

Cheers
Scott

[Essayons89]

The lifecylce of ich usually lasts 10 days or so. With the temp of the tank being what it is this may shorten the life cycle somewhat.

Like Proteus and Luv I use salt and heat to treat for ich. I'm not a fan of meds at all except in the case of last resort. Even when using the salt and heat method I still treat for a full 14 days.


Just my two cents.;)

Bryan

[flukes]

Yeah well i was going to use salt but they aquirium i went to (only one open at the time) didnt have any and i wanted to treat for it so i ued this product. Ah well they needed there fix of Formaldehyde and Malachite Green, soon they are going to be porning there belongings for some of drugs :roll:
Ahhhh well, I got a bag of salt today 2kg but iam not going to use it now, i started with this might aswell finish.

Scott

[flukes]

I was wondering when your discus had white spots, was the any abnormal behavour?? Because now its day 4 or so and the white spot have just about gone but they are acting very itchy like rubing against plants, floating from the top to the bottom and tiwisting upside down. And also this little wriggle like to shake something off. I was wondering if this is still the white spots or something else?

Cheers
Scott

[IKeepFish]

Was this really a white spot infection or was it Oodinium ??
White Velvet - Looks like white spot but is flagellate unlike ich which is the cysts of a protozoan.
an outbreak of Velvet is MOST commonly caused by a COLD water change !!! or fluctuating temps.
Probably why ich meds didn't work.
Salt and Heat has works for me in the past.
I hate using meds, - good water, and preventative salt with EVERY water change( heated water of course ) ( We spoil our fish don't we ! :-) )
2 tablespoons / 200 liters.

As for the itching, rubbing and wriggling ...
Due to the infection your fish became more susceptible to other parasites and probably
now have increased numbers of gill flukes.
Once again SALT is a good start for these pesky little critters. I would feed your fish earth worms for two weeks, one feed a day or every second day
to give them a bit of added nutrients. Earth worms are a great "recovery" food, and should assist them in getting their condition back.

A bit of "Stress Coat" might help also.
It's fairly natural. ( and not too expensive -
< $ 20 for 500ml )

If however the fish deteriorate then you will have no choice but to doze with Praziquantel. Aquamaster Fluke and tapeworm tablets ( Praziquantel 100mg )is one product that I have used.

That is one problem with using meds, ...
sometimes using one causes another problem, and then you use another med, and another and you end up with a pharmacy !
But the LFS loves you.
They are often only too happy to sell you meds, OR
"Aquarium salt" for an arm and a leg.
Go to Coles or Woolies and get yourself a kilo of
Rock salt for $ 1:00 to keep you fish happy.

Say no to drugs.

My 2 cents,
Regards,
IKeepFish

[flukes]

So rock salt is aquarium salt?? is this what i need for treatment??

[Proteus]

Say no to drugs.

My sentiments exactly...

The only 3 Meds I recommend...

1, Heat

2, Salt

3, Melafix

(obviously if there is a severe situation that is where Drugs may come into play, but I would rather keep my water as natural as possible)

[Proteus]

So rock salt is aquarium salt??

NOOOOOOOO!!!

Only use Aquarium safe salt from your LFS... rock salt can contain microscopic particles of Cyanide... to us it is harmless in the quantity within, but in a heated Aquarium, you might as well prepare for some losses... whilst not always that case... it is a risk...

I will see if I can find the article on it...

[flukes]

ok ok thats fine that just what lkeepfish reccomended. So i saw in my lfs red sea salt, this is what i need??

[Proteus]

I think Red Sea may be the brand...

just basic Aquarium Salt... doesnt matter what brand

[flukes]

yeah thats what i meant what aquarium salt do you use proteus?

[Proteus]

The 2 I have have right now...

2KG Aquarium Salt - AquaMaster

1KG Aquarium Salt - AquaSonic
(99.9% NaCI Sodium Chloride)

HTH

[flukes]

Cheers ill have to see what the LFS's stock.

Cheers
Scott

[luvfishies]

I use pickling/canning salt, or Kosher salt. Nothing but NaCl in it, and it has worked great for me in the past, with no issues at all.

Just thought I would share.

[IKeepFish]

G'day,
I have used Ordinary rock salt from the supermarket for more that 10 years and never had a problem. If the pack says 100% NaCl then I'll use it.
The only thing you have to be weary of is if it contains "YPS" Yellow Prussiate of Soda = Sodium Ferrocyanide.
If it does then DO NOT use it.
I have not seen any reference to it on any packs I've used.
Thanks to Proteus for raising this issue.

Regards,
IKeepFish

[Proteus]

Thanks for clearing that up...

I could not for the life of me find the article with the exact ingredient name that needs to be avoided, and Cyanide makes it sound worse than it should be, although as mentioned, should be avoided at all costs...

[flukes]

Ikeepfish,
What brand names do you use, just so i know i can get something that will work without buying it and just hopeing.

Cheers
Scott

[IKeepFish]

Hi Scott,

Sorry for taking so long to reply to this one.

I use Saxa Sea Rock Salt.
Naturally Evaporated Sea Salt.

It is actually made under licence by Cheetham Salt Ltd., and is 100 % natural - No additives.

I checked with their consumer hotline and the assured me that it does not contain any caking agents.

FYI beware of the following :
Food Additive Number
535 = Sodium Ferrocyanide
536 = Potassium Ferrocyanide

the following 2 should be OK :
341 Calcium Phosphates
554 Sodium aluminosilicate

Regards,

James

[Lily]

I realise this post has been dealt with about 10 days ago but just thought I'd mention protozin. It treates ich, and does not harm filter bacteria. I have found it to be a godsend.

Hopefully someone won't now post and say "it is deadly to discus", or "it does kill your filter bacteria, don't you know anything" :)