BACK TO BEEF HEART

[Ben]

Is anyone worried about the hormones that are used to speed up devolopment of cattle so it is quicker thus making it cheaper to sell at butcher/supermarkets?

does anyone use organic beef heart for their discus?
if so where do they get it and how do they know it is "organic freerange"

if you have tried a free range chicken egg and a caged chicken egg there is a HUGE difference!
so does that mean discus know as well? when it comes to beef heart?
personally myself, i want the best for all my discus!
am i bieng "over the top"?

:?: :?: :?:

[Sean]

Hope you do not mind me jumping in here with regard to beef heart. There is a lot of information on web sites such as these regarding intestinal problems in fish caused by beef heart. I know that it seems a staple diet for Discus, but i am wondering if we are feeing too much of the stuff to our fish. For one it is hardly a natural diet for discus and it is reported to cause bloat in some cichlids. After my discus have a feed of b/h they 'seem' to breathe more heavily for quite a while afterwards and they do not 'seem' to have this response with a large helping of live blackworm, bloodworms or even baby earth worms. I know it is important to give a varied diet, but shouldn't this be as close as possible to the types of foods that would have been available in a wild setting? Most prepared foods, Breeder's Premium for one, have fish derived products as their base - I think we should think about how much b/h we give our fish and try and replace it with fish based products - the only problem is b/h is so convenient, cheap and they seem to gulp it down like there is no tomorrow! Very fine shredded raw fish (cut frozen from the freezer) works for me, but it took a little while for the discus to agree.

[Merrilyn]

You can make a very simple alternative to beef heart. First get yourself a very simple hand mincer from any good department store,- around 10 to 20 dollars. Now, from the frozen fish section of the supermarket mince together the following.

1 part salmon
4 parts prawns
4 parts white fish fillets

add to that a handful of frozen peas
6 drops of children's pentavite
half level teaspoon of spirulina powder (from health food shop)
and some good quality flake food to bind it all together

mince everything twice and mix well. Place portions into sandwich bags, flatten and freeze.

Your fish will love you for it. :wink:

[Ben]

Wow Merrilyn!
i think i could toss that with a little spaghetti and eat it my self!
cheers, i will let you know when i give it ago!

[Merrilyn]

Sometimes I think my fish eat better than I do. Hmmmm now when is the last time I had salmon.

[Sean]

Thanks for the recipe Merrilyn,
I also have been following your advice regarding raising fry and have removed all dark objects from my breeding tank. Looking forward to more of your posts.
Cheers
Sean

[Rgoganj]

Hello fellow members (Trying to be PC),

I’ve spoken to a few vets about B/H and they all seen to be against feeding it to fish.
( I hope this doesn’t spark off a massive debate, as I understand that most of the DF members feed B/H) :x

But they do recommend fish meat, so ladyreds recipe is the better way to go.

[Sean]

Hey Merrilyn
Just a question regarding your fish meal: Are all the ingredients raw? and from a non-cooker typr person, is white fish fillet, any fish in the store?
Thanks
Sean

[Ben]

Sean,
can i butt in here , sorry Merrilyn!

please watch what you by when it comes to any seafood, dont just buy it because some white fish might be cheap. as we all know we get what we pay for.
I would go for farmed Barramundi, (barramundi has a high oil content and is controlled in special breeding/rairing pens)yep you might be thinking what the hell is ben on about but with high cocentations of mercury found in a lot of sea fish we have to be very careful! and think about our little babies
i would find a good seafood supplier in your area and drill them and ask lots of questions,
how fresh is the fish?
where do you get it from?
etc.
One thing about prawns, watch those guys to! dont buy the 14 $ a kilo ones from your asian goods supplier, prawns are treated with a chemical called sodium metabisulphate (spelling?)
this stops prawns from going that blackish colour.
its bad stuff, i used to brew my own beer and i used it once to sterilise my bottles, i got a smell of it and i almost passed out! and when you get it on your skin! well thats another story!

please dont hink i am sort of hippy! yes i might drink COOPER's Beer and eat free range eggs but i just want to to the best for my fish, and i guess so does everyone who uses this forum!

while i am on this subject, maybe instead of salmon try Ocean trout, this fish cost the same but has a higher omega 3 fatty acid content as well as other good stuff! you can simply tell by the colour!
try and get the PETUNA brand!

I have a great example of using good ingredients for animals...
This bloke in melbourne was keeping and breeding rose crowned fruit pidgeons native to new guinea and the top end of australia. he fed them natural dried sultanas everyday as the most part of their diet, because of the expence of natural dried sultanas he switched to the normal cheaper ,dried ones (which later he found out they are dried using sulphar!)
His birds stopped breeding for 18 months and he could not work out why, so he once again bought the more expensive natural dried sultanas and within a month his birds started breeding again.

This above example could relate to breeding anything! especially discus!

[Merrilyn]

Good thoughts, thanks Prodigydiscus. I agree, always get the best quality you can. Haven't tried ocean trout, but it sounds good. Since a friend told me about salmon, I've always added that to my mix and the discus go crazy for it. BTW all the ingredients are raw, so for the non cooks amongst you, no problems :wink:

[lesley]

Hello Prodigydiscus,

In Australia, it is most unlikely you will have to worry about hormone fed cattle. I haven't sold any for a while but when you are selling as far as I know you still have to fill out a declaration that they have not been given numerous things, including hormones. Don't know about the feedlot cattle, although I suspect that they would not have hormones either. (very different to the chickens you buy and the eggs you may eat from poor battery hens!) I certainly buy organic when I can, grow some veggies, we have our own cattle killed for eating - no pesticides on my property, living in the middle of large commercial farms growing potatoes and running sheep and cattle I see what chemicals/pesticides are poured into the soil ( the farmer on the opposite hill from us had a cropduster spraying 200 hundred acres for four hours last weekend, some of which was only to defoliate the crops for easier harvesting and which could have been slashed with a tractor).

[Ben]

Thanks for the feedback Lesley!

Thats crazy !!! spraying just to defoliate!
You are most likely right about there bieng no hormones bieng in cattle but they would diffenetly pick up cheicals along the way some how in those larger cattle stations!

Do you save the heart from your slaughter and feed it to your fish?
Fresh is best! lol

cheers,
Ben