Panduro Wild caught

[boydvd]

Hi Guys

does anyone know about wild caught a. panduro?

i may be able to get some soon. wondering what their colouring will be like. will they be fussy with water and food conditions?

also, does anyone have advice on quarntining and treating for possible wild diseases?

thanks

Tai

[kristina]

They will be fairly fussy about good water conditions. If you haven't got a tank already set up I would do that well before getting them and if you already have the tank set up I would double check what their water parameters are in the wild and try to mimic this as much as possible and get it stable.

[Robdog]

Pretty sound advice kristina but chances are, these little wilds have been in tank conditions for at least 1-2 months so would probably be well accustomed to aquarium water quality.
Can't hurt to give them the best though :wink: They will probably be some nice little fish with a nice blue through the males with nice colour in the tail fringe. Good luck with them

[boydvd]

i am committed to giving them the best conditions for them... i do hope they are colourful.

melbourne water is pretty soft, well, whats left of it anyhow :)

i think i might buy 4 of the panduro and see if they pair up. i heard they were fussy like that.

thanks
tai

[jluna]

panduros are the fiestiest apistos i've kept. the female in breeding colours is one of the prettiest fish i've ever seen, but tends to beat up on her male and any other females. be prepared for subtle colouration, until the female turns into a bright yellow terror, and be prepared to have to separate your 'pairs', ie, once you get a pair the others will need to be moved in IME.

they're well worth the trouble, though - a very pretty fish.

[kristina]

There is no certain way to say what a specimen will look like. Usually wild caught fish are less colourful but have magnificent body shape and less chance of deformities as the fish with deformities usually do not last as long in the wild. You should see some colouration on them making them distinctive, but not as much as aquarium bred as the aquarium bred have been selectively done to emphasise those characteristics. They would be absolutely magnificent looking fish IMO.

[gingerbeer01]

A. panduro is art of the cacatoides complex = note the strong jaw structure. The only fish you will confuse panduro with is nijsenni, both being predominantly sky blue in mature males. The Panduro will have punk hairdos (sticking up fins at the front of the dorsal) whereas nijsenni do not.

Most people tend to reccomend pairs for these - however they are harem spawners. The problem is due to the aggression of the fish (relative to others) you need a bigger tank for the harem.

There name for aggression is a bit unfair (well compared with nijsenni anyway) Give them space (Minimum two foot tank for a pair - no smaller) and remember like all apistos after breeding the female will chase the male away. (Actually the worst dwarf I have had for this habit has been the good ole' nanacara anomala)

If they are in good condition you should be able to sex them with confidence. As with most apistos look for the black on the ventrals, but also look for the black on the gill plate and maybe as a spot on the body. The male does not have these. (The spot on the body seems to be disappearing on bred lines :cry: ) I do not find these guys fussy for partners and wouldn't be worried about choosing the two best specimens.

As far as water conditions go these are not a crazy apisto - you do not need ridiculously low pH to breed etc, whereas nijsenni you do. I would check when you buy and match as you should with any new purchase - but do not overly stress. Give them a breeding pot and let them do there thing.

I would be interested in pics once they settle - I reckon the colours should be great as most of the breeding has weakened the colours IMO - particularly the reds and blacks on the fins. Best colour panduro I saw were wild caughts when I lived in Sydney.

HTH

[boydvd]

thanks for all this information, i'm getting very excited with anticipation of getting panduros now. they seem like an easier option than the bitaeniata. i will take a photo of the setup for my panduro tank in the next day or two. and also when i get the fish.

i've put my blue rams in there as they have coloured up and look to be in a spawning mood. back to square one with running out of tank space :o

[boydvd]

looks liek there will be room for Panduro in the community tank...my cactuiodes female who is guarding wrigglers just killed the male, 2 other females and 6 neon tetras!

how sad.

[boydvd]

i've got my 4 panduro in a 2 foot tank. there is an alpha pair in one secotion. they look to be doing a mating dance. they are lovely and lively and swim to the front of the tank like rams.

in the other section is the other female with the sub male. she cahses him around and keeps him hiding behind the flower pot. should i remove them and place them in the 4 foot tank with a pair of agassizi? if the panduro aren't pair bonded they shouldn't be aggressive, right?

[Rod]

Nice fish....

I see you have a white substrate.....Not Good if it's calcium carbonate
May not be....but it looks very similar?

They do best in soft acid water.....calcium carbonate will increase the carbonate hardness and Total Dissolved Solids....any attempt to acidify the water will be buffered by the substrate. Personally I think colours are stronger against a dark substrate....but not everyone will agree

I found most dwarfs will breed in most water conditions....just eggs fail to fertilise/hatch if water is hard.

I have a similar fish A. nijsseni....I have mine set up as a trio in a heavily planted tank with endler hybrids as dither fish.....I like to have dither fish with dwarfs so they can share their aggression around....I find endlers good and I don't mine if one gets too close on occasion!

[TW]

I really like the pattern on those panduro. Wish they were available in Sydney. Good luck with them.

[kristina]

beaut fish... good luck with them. I hope they don't have the same fate as your cacs did. Thats so terrible, I know 3 were killed by the female, but why did the last living female die?

[boydvd]

hi Kristina,

i've been working with hassles as to why the last female died.

it appears i have had a plant tank crash creating a toxic bacterial load(according to St kilda aquarium).

the prescribed Tertracycline to treat the fish. tank is horrible and now has algae water as of this morning.

it must be this crash that killed the last female cac as I have lost 2 rams (very sad as they had great form and so blue) and about 16 neon and rummy nose tetras! the guppies and platies keep pumping out babies though.

the panduro tank doesn't have as many plants nor is it CO2 so should be a lot more stable.


fingers crossed.

[boydvd]

Hey Rod

thanks for the advice. i was worried about the white sand too but the shop assured me it was suitable as an acid tank. The only reason i went with this was that i had those white pots with the hoels matched. but i am working on getting black gravel and creating some terracotta caves for them.

in the first week the ph was 7.5 but has since dropped to slightly below 7. carbonate hardness is low in the water after a week.

I do like balck subtrate but it's been hard finding 2mm black gravel that's non reactive. I bought some dyed gravel, but deciding i don't like it. I went to a stone shop on the wekend and he said he could orde rin 2-3mm black river pebbles. this may be a goer.

i have 2 baby guppies as dither fish. i may move more over... my guppies and paties are having more babies than i actually want.

[gingerbeer01]

You are going to need to watch these fish carefully. If they do breed the female will hunt and kill the male, and he has got nowhere to go in that size tank.

What is a tank plant crash? Something sounds wrong. What were the physical symtoms and test all water parameters (minimum hardness, pH, Nitrate, nitrite and ammonia)

[kristina]

How are your panduro's settling in? What exactly is a tank crash? I have a little bit of knowledge that it may be adding a lot of plants to a fairly new tank and the eco-system within the tank cannot cope and something crashes, but what exactly has gone on?

[boydvd]

HI Kristina,

apparently the lfs said it was a planted tank bacterial overload crash. so i was told to medicate with tertracylyn which cost $70.

anyhoo, had to move the sub male and female panduro into the main 4 foot tank with all the problems. female died a few days ago. the male looks like he's not long fo this world either.

very sad as the panduro are gorgeous fish. all fish in my other tanks are healthy and happy including pair of panduro and trio of agassizi. PH KH GH AMMONIA NITIRE Are all fine. i did an iron test tonitgh and it appears my iron levels are way off the chart. this may be what is killign them. i will geta copper test too tomorrow. but i think it is the iron that is the culprit!

you see my base subtrate is laterite which is iron based clay. i have heating cable in the subtrate and i was dosing with seachem flourish as well. this leads me to think i have posioned my fish with iron!!

i have turned the heating off so it doesn't circulate water int he substrate and expose the main water with the iron.

i immediately treated with aquatan to bind the heavy metals and hopefully the iron. i think this may be it!!

options are to strip the substrate and relay it without the laterite. i wanna put in black river pebbles so this may give me the excuse to do it. the laterite made the water red and cloudy which i never liked. does all this make sense? i hope this iron is the issue with my fish!!

[gingerbeer01]

That makes more sense. Iron is not the worst stuff but can overdose ofcourse.

[kristina]

total bummer. Please do me a huge favour and find someone to take the male at the very least. Dont just let him die from iron poisoning. See if hassles can take him for you until your tank gets sorted at the absolute very least. Poor little guy, they are really beaut fish and it churns my heart just thinking that you are letting him die slowly by leaving him there.

[kristina]

How is the tank going? Still having problems? Did the male survive in the tank? Has the eco-system settled down yet or is it still pretty crazy? Have you tested the water params and what are they? I've been thinking about your tank a bit lately and wondering what happened, hoping everything is ok.

Kris

[brad_v]

What is the leaf you have in the tank?

[boydvd]

hi kristina,

the tank is not 100%... seems like one hing goes wrong after another.

i got two more t5 lights for my main tank. i'm hoping the extra light will help the plants soak up the iron and hope it stabilises.

unfortunately i have only 1 panduro left. my panduro apir were happy in thier own tank and two days ago the male had stringy poo and was breathing fast. then he died. i have frozen him and hope to get a post mortem from a vet.

today i picked up some parasite medication to kill and flukes etc. looking into feeding my fish some garlic in their food too. i suspect either worms or parasites are causing my fish to die. fingers crossed my tanks will stabilise so i can pick up the panduro i have on hold. i had a look at them today, there were 5 in the tank and 1 looked unwell. these are awesome fish with so much personality. fingers crossed i will be able to look after them and hopefully breed.

[kristina]

brad_v : the leaves most commonly used in apistogramma tanks are either oak leaves or indian almond leaves. they soften the water, drop the pH and are found in many of their natural habitats. They look great in the tank and provide cover and complexity to the tank.

boydvd: oh man, don't put anything in that tank until everything has cleared up. You will most probably kill the fish and waste a lot of money. There will always be more fish to buy, but the object of keeping fish is to keep them, not kill them. Please make sure that the tank is safe before immediately adding more fish. I know it is hard not to put more fish in your tank, I want to buy every fish I see, but you really need to evaluate what is best for the fish. It may take another month before you have everything balanced and suitable to put apistogramma in, but it will be well worth it. Trust me, it will be well worth it.

[boydvd]

here's a pic of my panduro. they sem healthy but the boys don't look that intersted in the females. i suspect they have spawned recently and eaten the eggs