Raising Artificially

[chris@yen]

Anyone know where I can get some Artificial Plankton and Rotifers from? My pigeon bloods are just bad parents (or the wrigglers are all blind).

Any tips on raising artificially would be appreciated also.

Thanks in advance.

[Trebs]

What is the main colour of the pb's? Are there any dark objects in the breeding tank?

[chris@yen]

Discus are predominantly orange and white. The tank is bare with a white nylon bag over the filter.

The fry swim everywhere except on the parents... very :(

[Trebs]

I'm having the same problem at the moment. I've lowered the water level, but didn't seem to help. I check in on them later. Hopefully they'll work it out.

I'd expect using surrogate parents would be easier than artifically raising them.

[chris@yen]

Yeah... gotta hope and pray that I get another pair in my community tank soon. I really dislike this parental filicide, it's such a waste.

[Merrilyn]

Chris, you have chosen the most difficult of the colours to breed. I have had success with PBs but it took a long time for the fry to attach. Try turning the main tank light out and just have a small reading light illuminating the cone. The fry should hang around the light, and the parents should hang around the fry. Another thing to try is using a smaller tank. I breed PBs in a tank 18 inches by 18 inches. Seems to help.

[chris@yen]

Thanks for the tips. Will try that if the rotifers and plankton don't work out...
Now I only gotta find out where to get these from... any suggestions?

[Merrilyn]

Artificial rearing is possible with a mixture of boiled egg yolk mixed with a small amount of raw egg yolk, and smeared around the sides of a white plastic dish. Constant water changes are needed as the egg mixture quickly fouls the water.

[chris@yen]

ugh... sounds like a Japanese breakfast (just without the rice). I guess it's worth a shot. I'll let you know how it goes. How well do you think the liquid baby foods will go? How about micro-algae?

[Merrilyn]

Hi Chris, well I'll give you a few tips on the artificial rearing methods I have used, but it is a huge job, so be sure you really want to start.

First mix hard boiled egg yolk with a small amount or raw yolk (just enough to make it sticky)
Place fry in a white plastic ice cream container with water from the parent tank.
Smear some egg mix around the sides of the container, about 2 cm wide, allow to dry for around 5 minutes, then gently raise the water level so it now covers the egg mix.
This fry should begin eating from the sides, just as they would eat off the sides of the parents.
Allow them to have access to the food for around 30 minutes, then gently remove some of the water so the mix is now above the water line, and you can clean off the remainder with tissue.
Repeat as many times as you are able thru the day, but at least every four hours.
After a week mix freshly hatched brine shrimp (crushed) with the egg yolk, and add a few live ones to the container.
When they are eating the live baby brine shrimp constantly, stop feeding the egg mix.
The water must be clean at all times, so constant water changes are necessary with aged water from the parent's tank.
Float the container in the parents tank to maintain temperature and make water changes easier.
Have a small airstone in the container set very slow, just enough to break the surface, but not enough to upset the fry, or they will use up all their energy trying to swim away from the current.

HTH

[Merrilyn]

I've never used liquid baby fry foods - I think they could do more harm than good. Discus fry will not recognise it as food.

[chris@yen]

Wow, thanks for the help - very detailed. I think I'll try that egg rearing method in about 24hrs. (Eggs on cone from yesterday). If it works, I'll be most appreciative. Thanks.

Why have a white container though? - is it so that the babies will more quickly recognise the egg on the side as food?

Thanks again.

[mtchye]

Yup the white container is to allow the babies to see the food. To make it even better add a small amount of spirulina powder into the food and it will turn a dark green colour.

I too found it too painstaking, however it will work if you have time. Add a drop of Prime or similar ammonia bonding treatment to reduce effects of any nitrogenous waste products...

Good luck :)

Vincent

[chris@yen]

Thanks for the tips. Lets see how this goes... I'm not sure how i'm gonna feed them every 4hours while i'm away at work... but lets see what happens :)

Thanks again. Keep any other ideas coming.

How do the commercial breeders raise their fry? Do they have armies of workers running to each of their tanks every couple of hours?

[Sean]

Hi Chris
I have had limited success in raising fry artificially - I find it too hard with my work commitments unfortunately, but am planning a holiday and to dedicate 2 weeks to the task :)
I have made at least 5 attempts following the method attached exactly. I found the APR that you have asked about at Seaview Aquariums in Adelaide - they will probably send you some (artificial plankton and rotifers (a.p.r.) used for feeding marine filter feeders). My best attempt got the fry to about day 10 - and I think gill flukes may have knock the fry off. I have also used the boiled egg method and found that I polluted the water too much.
Thanks for the posting, it has got me fired up to try again.
Good luck
Sean

[Trebs]

Quick update.

The remaining fry in with my golden Pidgeon pair are now swimming with the parents (only about a dozen left). It has taken about 24hrs from when I lowered the water level. I'm using an 18" cube tank with a blue sponge filter. I think I'll lose a fair number of fry to the filter.

I also transfered some of the fry(about 20) to my moody red pair (the Moody pair only had 5 fry as the ph was 7.2 when they spawned). They seem to have been accepted (about 8-10 made it to the body). The fry are about 4 days youger than the Moody fry. Will see how this goes.

I know I'm dragging things off topic but, one last question - where did you get the white nylon bag from?

[chris@yen]

Yeah, the APR method sounds a little bit neater, but i don't think the APR will arrive in time. The eggs should be hatching tonight... time to eat out a white tub of ice cream. :)


Hi Chris
I have had limited success in raising fry artificially - I find it too hard with my work commitments unfortunately, but am planning a holiday and to dedicate 2 weeks to the task :)
I have made at least 5 attempts following the method attached exactly. I found the APR that you have asked about at Seaview Aquariums in Adelaide - they will probably send you some (artificial plankton and rotifers (a.p.r.) used for feeding marine filter feeders). My best attempt got the fry to about day 10 - and I think gill flukes may have knock the fry off. I have also used the boiled egg method and found that I polluted the water too much.
Thanks for the posting, it has got me fired up to try again.
Good luck
Sean

[chris@yen]

Q. I know I'm dragging things off topic but, one last question - where did you get the white nylon bag from?
A. White Crane in Strathfield, about $7.00 for a fairly large bag.

[chris@yen]

Bugger!
This is hard work, and it's not even going well.

Two nites ago the fry were free swimming, so I separated them from their hungry parents. They liked the egg yolk yesterday and the day before. Today they refuse to eat anything, and half of them have dropped dead.

They got fresh eggs, the water is changed regularly.

Maybe it's time to look out for a foster parent pair of discus.

Any ideas/suggestions would be GREAT.

Thanks in advance.

[Merrilyn]

Check your ammonia level Chris.

[chris@yen]

Will do with the next batch, the parents should respawn in a day or two.

That's most likely I think - might have to use a mini tank instead of an ice cream box.