Parenting Skills, M Altispinosis

[BobbyBruce]

Hi All,

I got four of these as Juveniles in January and they have matured nicely. Two of them have paired up and spawned for the second time early last week.

On the two occassions that they have spawned they have cared for the eggs very well and they managed to hatch out this time.

I have noticed that the parents were still very much together since hatching occured and seem to be guarding (not that I have been able to see any fry).

When cleaning the tank today they were very agressive towards the vaccuum so I gave them some space and more or less cleaned up around them. I believe that they are protecting fry in among the fairly dense clumps of chain sword I have in a few locations around the tank. Just wondering, has anyone had any success with they guys in a community aquarium containing a few discus, a couple of varieties of tetras and some corydoras.

I am considering giving them a go in a 60 ltr tank if we don't get anywhere with this lot. Would 60 be enough or should we go for something bigger. Recommendations?

Regards,

Bob

[harley]

I have never kept Bolivian rams myself but from what have read a 60L tank would be a near perfect size for a breeding pair.

According to Australian Aquarium Magazine care sheet, to house a pair of M.atispinosa the tank should be atleast 50 litres. They also recommend a PH of 6.5-7.5 with a GH <10 and temp 25-28 if you are interested.

Cheers,

[BobbyBruce]

Thanks Harley,

Looks like it's time for the baby angels to move over. Well, perhaps I'll let them stay until after the parents have finished with this lot.

Regards,

Bob

[kristina]

I don't have the altispinosa, I keep the ramirezi. Their parental behaviour is fairly similar... poor to say the least. I wouldn't keep anything with them when breeding them, however I am starting to lean more towards letting them spawn in a very lightly stocked community tank for their first few attempts while they are still young, in an attempt to challenge their parental skills and up their game. I have watched mine in their community tank get a little better each time. I am hoping that the next time they try I will have at least half of the other inhabitants in another tank to give them more of a chance. Do not put 2 pairs in a 60L tank. One pair will survive happily, but two is cramping their style and you will probably run into problems. As they get more experience in spawning, they will have bigger batches of fry and the numbers get into the hundreds. With a large batch of fry and poor parental skills, you have a recipe for disaster if there are too many potential threats around. A few dither fish have been recommended in larger breeding tanks that have cover, and I would guess that this is so that a certain amount of natural selection takes place and the rest learn from their siblings wandering too far from parents. I haven't done this myself and I cannot verify it. It makes sense in theory but don't take it as gospel. If other fish become a problem, you ultimately have to decide to let the fry get eaten or get rid of the other fish. Good luck with it.
Kristina

[BobbyBruce]

Thanks Kristina,

It has been over a week now since I first noticed the fry. I think there are still around 1/2 dozen maybe 10 fry in there. The tank is 200 ltrs, plenty of low level plants with a good number of inhabitants. This is the second time this pair have spawned and I didn't notice any fry after the spawn hatched so they are doing much better this time.

Nice to have your input regarding breeding in a 60 ltr, I was only intending to shift the pair in by them selves or maybe with a couple of otocinclus.

Regards,

Bob

[kristina]

If only 6 have survived, then it sounds like you are doing most things right, but if your strict intentions are to breed these fish then it would be advisable to remove some of the fish that are the biggest threats to their survival. If you do not want to breed these fish it is probably a good idea to swap your male for another female. This way they still have a friend in the tank, they just wont reproduce. You may also find that the male is fairly keen to continue spawning, regardless of if the female is. Give them a rest from eachother if it gets out of hand and you notice the female getting exhausted.

[kristina]

Bob,
How have things gone with your butterflies? They are really beautiful little fishies. My rams have spawned a few times in the last months and the male has become very aggressive towards anything foreign that enters the tank (gravel vac, hand, magnetic glass cleaner etc.) even when there are no eggs or fry in the tank. Has your male settled down a bit, or is he doing the same? I added a new plant in the tank and had to do a double team. I put plant in and someone else kept male away as he is getting big now and his attacks are quite good.
Kristina

[BobbyBruce]

Hi Kristina,

Thanks for your interest.

We ended up losing them all after a period of 10 - 14 days. Parents became disinterested/tired and slowly the tetras and discus caught them out.

They do not seem to be overly aggressive except during mating/spawning/caring for fry. They are looking as if they are getting ready to spawn again (probably another couple of water changes) but I'm thinking as the days get shorter the less likely they are to spawn.

Will let you know how things develop.

Regards,

Bob

[kristina]

Krikey Bob, that was a fast reply!
Yeah, mine are going through the moves getting ready to lay eggs too, so I did all the heavy tank maintenance today so when they lay eggs I don't have to worry about that stuff, I can just do simple water changes, siphoning from the surface of the water for the first week and a half. I find that brine shrimp feedings help the female lay eggs within a matter of hours. If she looks as if she is going to lay eggs soon, I will give them brine shrimp at their next meal, which my female gobbles greedily. So much so that the male doesn't stand a chance. Unfortunately this fills her already swollen belly and something has got to give. elpresto, you have a well fed female with eggs who has enough sustainance to keep her healthy through the extra stress on her body. I make sure that I only give a very small serving in their tank (1/4 cube of frozen brine) so that she doesn't bloat, as she really does like the stuff. I've found that since it is her last meal before she goes off her food for a few days, it helps her stay a bit healthier through the hard times ahead.

As mentioned previous, if you are serious about breeding them, they pretty much need a tank to themselves. If your happy to let them keep going how they are, then thats fine too. I think the rule of thumb is a maximum of 6 spawns before you give them a rest from each other anyway, so maybe having a holiday tank ready would be wise.

I'm interested in hearing your experiences soon enough...
Kristina