About to start my Discus Aquarium

[Melsy]

Hi all,

Im just about to pick up my new Tank, which after researching, have decided to make a Discus/Community Tank. The tank is about 250L, with canister filter. I currently have a much smaller tank which I intend on decomissioning once I get the knew tank. In this current talk I have 5 small yellow barbs, one sml orange striped barb, one very peaceful african butterfly cichlid. I have a few questions:
1) Would the above 7 small fish be ok with say 4 adult Discus in a 250L tank? Would this be overcrowding? (I have made this mistake once before I think)

2) Would it be ok to transfer exisiting water and fish to new tank and to get the tank full gradually top fill in the same fashion as though I was doing a 30% water change? Or should I just keep 2 tanks going and then transfer them once the new tank has aged?

3) If using exisiting water, how long would the water need to be aged for in new tank before I can add Discus, would 8 wks be correct?

4) I know how to test for PH but how do i test for Nitrates?

5) also...I'm a little confused with all the stuff I've read about RO's. While I dont like to spare any expense when it comes to my fish, I dont think I can afford one of these units, so what is the alternative? Do I use say spring water to fill 75% and tap water (treated as I would normally treat the water going into my tank) for 25%......or I am just really confused??!!

Sorry for the zillion questions, I want to try to get this as right as I can...I want to try and minimise fish fatalities!

Thanks
Mel

[Hollowman]

Hi Mel,

There are lots of questions and I only have a short time right now, but here goes.

1. Barbs or any kind and many other cichlids will not mix with discus. I would get rid, or sell them on. If you want community fish look at thing like smaller tetras, ansistrus, Rams. 250l will be fine for 4-5 adult discus, we normally recommend 10 gallons per adult fish. DO NOT buy just 3 fish, 5 if possible. You will need to be able to do at least 30% water changes 3 times a week, so be prepared for this.

2. No, do not tranfer fish

3. Do not bother to try to transfer water from one tank to another. Water does not carry the bio media, your cannister has this and will be able to run in the new tank. Water for discus should be aged for 24 hours before use.
4 .Get yourself a new set of test kits. You need Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte and Ph tests. Do not get the all in one test strips, get the liquid test kits.

I will get to number 5 when I can get back.

hth for now. Use the search facilty here to research about RO and HMA water.

H :)

[Melsy]

Thanks H,

So I now have my tank, im ready to start the initial setup, I intend on using white pool filter sand as the base, and Im going to use tap water with a good water conditioner. You mentioned the water needs to be aged for 24hrs before use, I have 2 questions about this, 1) By aged I gather you mean the water has sat in a water container for a full day, not directly out of a tap into the tank? 2) This in mind, does the water have to be aged if Im just starting my fishless cycling, becuase I dont have anywhere to store 220L aside from my tank, can I just fill it, let it sit then turn my filter on 24hrs later. Also in about a week or two I want to add about 10 Clear Shrimp, and about 10-20 small neon tetras to get the cycling process really happening, would this be appropriate, Ive read alot about ppl adding back tetras to a tank, but not much mention of neons, are they too active and darty for a discus tank?

thanks heaps again, this forum has been fantastic for my learning, each of the many posts Ive read (and re-read!) has given my so much insight!

cheers
mel

[DiscusDave]

If there's no discus in the aquarium already there's no need to age the water, just fill the aquarium and start the filter immediatly. But for water changes you should really condition the water in advance and store it with an airstone running to prevent it going stagnant. This allows the PH to stabalise and ensures that the water is totally conditioned.

Cardinals might be a better option that neons - neither will bother the discus but cardinals are better suited to the higher temperatures.

[Hollowman]

I think Dave answered the water question Mel, but as for your cycle, opinions will differ as to how to do it.

Adding fish to a new tank is a harsh way to do it. The fish will suffer from all the poisons in the water, and I would suspect that you will loose a few before the tank becomes stable or mature. You also run the risk of introducing disease and bacteria into a new tank, You could kill any potential stock of expensive discus in a heartbeat. Plus you are left with the fish that you cycled with, that might be compromised by the cycle.

For me, (and I am doing this right now), I prefer a fishless cycle. My filter which is going to run a small 800ltr system off is a 140ltr tank, see here:

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18486

I have filled the compartments with filter media, the same as you will have in your cannister filter, or sponge filter, whatever you are going to use, and I am adding clear ammonia to the tank water. The ammonia added takes the place of fish waste or left over uneaten food and is completely free from outside 'fish' contaminants.
The ammonia through action of the nitrogen cycle gets converted to nitrIte and in turn converted to safer nitrAte. I have been running my new sump for a full 2 weeks now, and I have got some very encouraging test readings that mean that my tank/sump is well on it's way to being ready to use.
I think buying clear ammonia might be a little difficult in Aus, but there are a few links already saying where people have sourced it from. Importantly though, the ammonia you buy must not contain any detergents, you can test this by shaking the bottle to see if it foams, if it does, it's not the right stuff.
You will need a good liquid test kit, one for Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte and Ph. I test each day and record the readings, this way I know what is going on, it also allows you to see the nitrogen cycle in action.

Now, if you do decide to go this route of a fishless cycle others might say just throw in a shrimp into the tank to mature your filter. This will also work, as when the shrimp rots it will give out ammonia, but...... it will stink your house out! Using the clear ammonia there is no smell, and is very controllable.
I can post up my results from my records, that might help. I really recommend this way of maturing your filter, as it is totally fish friendly, and looking quicker at the moment than the 6 weeks it would take with small fish.

hth
H :wink:

[DiscusDave]

A lot of people down here use a green prawn in place of the clear ammonia. I've not done it myself since all the tanks I've started recently have used ADA substrate which contains ammonia. I also like to use a bio-starter like Seachem Stability or Sera Nitrivec. They accellerate the cycle substantially.

Dave

[Hollowman]

yes, I agree Dave, these products will help things along too. I know seachem stability is good.

[Melsy]

Thanks so much guys,
so one week on here are my stats:
PH 6.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
GH 4
I have had a fish in the tank that I know is healthy and disease free, unfortunatly I added her before your advice not to add fish hollowman, but she seems just as healthy and happy. Does this sound ok? Also I bought a product called Halgen Aquaclear ammonia remover filter media 50. Since my ammonia levels are low, should i still put this is my filter. Also I read in a Discus book, that provided your PH is below 7, ammonia will not form, but ammonium will develop which is NOT toxic to fish in any way. Is this true, in which case provided my PH is kept low, then I wouldnt need to be concerned about a spike in ammonia in the cycling process?

[Hollowman]

If you have no ammonia, you will not have a cycle. You need to establish a bacterial colony, one fish will probably not produce enough ammonia to do anything. For instance, I am adding 10ml of ammonia every day at the moment, I am trying to keep the ammonia level at 4ppm and my nitrIte has spiked and I am now showing a good nitrAte reading and my nitrItes are on the way down. I have to feed the ammonia daily to keep the cycle going. IMO, I don't think that your cycle is moving. The fish you have in there is surviving, but not doing the job. I would remove him and get some ammonia and get it going properly :)

hth

H :) :)