Ammonia, NitrIte & PH advice.

[Goerge_of_the_Jungle]

Hi DF'ers,

I have a issue that had my girlfriend was in tears about 3 hours ago.
My discus is in trouble, and i should be shot! I woke up this morning, went to feed George and found him, with practically no color, and he was as pale as a ghost, floating at the top of the tank with his mouth out of the water, UP SIDE DOWN!

I immediately got my girl friend to take some water up to the LFS for a thorough testing while i did a 50% water change.

I got her to pick up a master test kit, as i only had Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.
These are my readings Before WC/After WC:


http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa42/kaoz131/MyReadings.jpg

I understand if a ph level is to acidic, it can burn the membrayne off the fish. First of all, is this true, and second of all, what should my PH be for a Discus?

Whats the best way to lower, raise the PH?

I appreciate any help from you, and the reason i am coming to you and not my LFS about this, is because all of you have so much more expereience that any LFS i know.

I Eagerly await your reply,

Geroge.

P.S Since i done a WC, his color has started to come back.

[dthomo]

That PH is fine for Discus.

Going of those readings your tank isnt cycled.

How long has the tank been running for?

Cheers,
Dave

[Goerge_of_the_Jungle]

Tank is cycled, its been up for over 8 months now. I have had issues with my Ammonia before, but i have a feeling i know why its shot up. Have been away for most of the week, friend fed the fish for me. I rekon he put to much flakes in, which in turn rotted, produced Phosphates and then again, in turn, BOOM Ammonia.

Thanks for the PH advice to, im glad i have something right! lol.

My second tank is not cycled yet, its been up for a month, i done a partial water change today, and only keep 50% water in it to speed it up a little. Wont be long and the discus will have his own tank, along with a few more discus tank mates.

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi George,

Firstly mate those readings are not going to turn your fish upside down, they are nowhere near high enough to do that. At .25 I doubt they would even bat an eyelid. Secondly, if your Ph is 6-6.4 then your fish are being subjected to Ammonium and not Ammonia which is nowhere near as toxic.

I've kept Discus at times in 4.5 -5.5 Ph without any problems and someone I know actually breeds Discus in readings close to that. A very low Ph can most certainly affect many species of fish but don't forget that many wild Discus in the tributaries are swimming around in a very low Ph, far lower than we keep them generally.

If you're not breeding Discus my advice would be to leave the water alone unless it comes out of the tap at +8. Discus will live very happily at a higher Ph and some Americans are breeding Discus in Ph readings of 7.5+.

Stability is the key with Discus, not theoretically perfect water parameters, they hate sudden change and the water "roller coaster ride".
Cheers
MAC

[Goerge_of_the_Jungle]

Thanks for all of your info, sadly George passed away early this after noon.

I spent so much time searching for a hidden cause, i didn't stop to think LOGICALLY!

Trace amounts of Ammonia can attack a fish's respiratory system, I knew that, but what i didnt know, is that an air pump is not just for decoration. So i have had mine off for about 1 - 2 weeks.

In short, trace amounts of ammonia + lack of oxygen in the water = :cry:

I have fixed this now, i ran the air pump flat out, its still going.
the only way i picked up on this is because all the fish, tetras, mollies even the Cory's, were all sitting at the top gasping for air.

If only i could have caught it sooner.

I buried George (My name is Heath, I chose George of the Jungle for these forums after my beloved Discus) in the garden a short wile ago. May he go to a better place.

RIP George.

[mistakes r crucial]

I'm sure he will go to a better place George.
Cheers
MAC

[lpiasente]

Sorry Heath for your loss.

[DiscusDave]

Thanks for all of your info, sadly George passed away early this after noon.

I spent so much time searching for a hidden cause, i didn't stop to think LOGICALLY!

Trace amounts of Ammonia can attack a fish's respiratory system, I knew that, but what i didnt know, is that an air pump is not just for decoration. So i have had mine off for about 1 - 2 weeks.

In short, trace amounts of ammonia + lack of oxygen in the water = :cry:

I have fixed this now, i ran the air pump flat out, its still going.
the only way i picked up on this is because all the fish, tetras, mollies even the Cory's, were all sitting at the top gasping for air.

If only i could have caught it sooner.

I buried George (My name is Heath, I chose George of the Jungle for these forums after my beloved Discus) in the garden a short wile ago. May he go to a better place.

RIP George.

Sorry to hear of your loss :(

I suspect it was the Nitrite rather than ammonia - it's exceedingly toxic at low PH and interferes with the ability of blood to transport oxygen (called brown blood disease). Running an airstone does help, and adding salt and increasing alkalinity with baking soda all help.

[Goerge_of_the_Jungle]

thank you all for your compassionate and informative replies. Everyone i have told says' its just a fish' but most of you will know, they can be more then that, you get attached to them

I have a question how ever, I have a 3 foot 140L tank, how much salt to you add?

[mistakes r crucial]

Teaspoon per 40 litres George.
MAC

[Goerge_of_the_Jungle]

Thanks MAC, much appreciated.