question on Discus breathing..

[1fish2fish3fish]

just brought home 2 blue cobalts, first night keep light off for a bit, then was wanting a peek. Discus seem fine, swimming around checking it all out, not hiding at all, colour is there from the start, and have taken some bloodworms, and a bit of flake hrs later..they are picking at the bottom, seems good!
But.. Tell me if its just me or is it laboured breathing.. Ive never had Discus before, do they breath rapid like this alot?..and yes its hard to type it down as to how much is too much..
looking at my Community tanks seems they do the same but not as fast.
Could it only be high ph and present amonia in the tank doing it..
these fish were not ment to be hear with me, kinda a long story..I supervise at a LFS and order Blue Cobalt "Cichlids" 2 of them and got 2 Blue cobalt "Discus".. big mistake on suppliers part, our store was not ready for Discus..so I took them home..
Ive got a 80gal cycling which is to be for Angels and Discus but not this soon.. OH! sorry they are not in that tank, they are in a Hex witch was a hospital tank..
so what is to heavy a breathing for fish?.. also do rocks change the ph by making it go up..?
thanks Sue
p.s.. heres a pic of them.. you can rate them too pls would love to hear what you all think..

[1fish2fish3fish]

my post seems so mishmashed.. hope its not to confusing.. I think I might be looking to hard and seeing that maybe they are breathing too hard..you get what I mean..
Ive been keeping aquariums for 25 yrs +..just not discus...
community tanks, koi and cichlids, no need to worry to much on Ph, Ro, Kh,Gh..etc.. dont get me wrong Ive got and done tests on my tanks for yrs, but not so closely as I will have to now..
I know laboured breathing can happen from high ammonia levels etc..
help plzzz..

someone will ask my water chemistry,, its ph is 7.6 maybe a little higher..
I am in need of a water change.. been 2 days since arriving home with them..ammonia is probably only slitly present..when I get back to work Im bringing home new kits..might be done of date on box..
and for Gh and Kh..
Sue

[Boyam]

Only common cause for rapid breathing i can think of is: Lil' too much heat, Flukes, ammonia/nitrite, and aeration. oh and water clarity can do it too ive been told.

[Boyam]

Oh and i would at least lower the PH to 7.0(for the plants n fish)... i keep mine at 6.7.

and im sure one of the advisers will give you a gill rate shortly. i believe its something like 1-3 a second; three being high.

wait for some feed back though. i have only been with discus for about a year.

[ILLUSN]

sue can you please post your water quality, ammonia nitrite nitrate and temp, we need that info to be able to help you. also what else in the tank, do you have good airation? are the fish flicking or rubbing against things?

[1fish2fish3fish]

hello, thanks for the replys.. as said (I think) brought these 2 home on spur of the moment, which I noramlly wouldnt do..thinking they would be better in my tank than the one at the store..
sorry for this long post.. as Ive been doing water checks I think my kits are out dated, as stated I dpnt check for water quality much with the kits over time as it wouldnt be nessesary if you do the changes and cleanning of the filters.. as I only have kept community and cichlids, koi before, but have them on had for the odd time..
Im taking water into work today to test.. will post tonight
do use them and the readings would be as followed.. Ammonia 0 , Ph has gone down it seems,at least so it looks from last nights reading..thats 6.8 to 7.0 which I can live with for now..Nitrates are 5-10 this is good acording to what Ive read, Id say closer to the 5..nitrites are 0.
I do have some plant very little as you can see..
The stick/twig that you see in the pic has been removed..why with it in the tank for just the 2 days it collected bubbles on it and had a slime coating all over it.. I have been told by a supplier from Hagen that these were safe for tanks.. I DONT THINK SO.. they are made by Exo -terra for reptiles. Anyone can add to that, if you have any info on them.. or there products..
when I did take it out it was like gel , thick all over it.. and did a water change and the fish seem to be breathing ALOT better.
I have a aquaclear OTB filter on the hex and extended intake, should be a decient turn over rate,about as good as Im gonna get for now.. I could add some airation.. should I?
Fish have been eating fine, colour is good, not rubbing at all.. did see some head and body shakes from the Angel last night..that what realy got me looking closely..
Anyone can throw me suggestion, Im all ears.. what should my schedual be?.. 2-3 w/ch a week 30%-40%should I take out the rock or some of it.. should I use a ammonia pack in my filter.. tell me about ageing the water, how is it done and how long..my hex is probably 30gal and up..was bought at a yardsale..
RO water is out of the question..
oh and I do have PH down and I bought it for the Discus tank(80gal) just was picking up things here and there as I need them sooner or later.. never used it before..I do need help with that..
sue

[Hollowman]

Sue, you need to post up your water results or we cannot help. ILLUSN's post asks this too.

Discus should breathe at a rate of about once a second.
It looks like you got yourself a couple of Cobalts (Cobalts are blue, so they are not 'Blue' Cobalts, just Cobalts :wink: ) As for assessing them, they look in reasonable health right now, but you must have been last on the list for supplying as they are both very poorly stunted (see large eye, and rugby ball shape) They still look very small so need to be looked after/maintained very well to get the best from them. This will mean lots of good water and regular water changes.

Hollowman

[1fish2fish3fish]

Yes hollowman, as stated in my post,( did you read it) I did what I could, now that I am home from work with a NEW test kit.. here are the results..Nitrates 0-5
Nitrites 0... PH 6.8 to 7.0.. I know thats a wide gap to fish..but how accurate can test kits be.. 6.8 would be fine with me.. but they are not as hard to keep anymore so around 7.0 is fine too.. I do have PH down but have never used it before..it a new kit too..
I most definitely know what the fish are thanks.. and Cobalts yes..which funny you say that, reason why they ended up home with me on such short notice, because I would have been more prepared then this..

I supervise at a LFS and on my fish order I ordered as follows 2 Blue Cobalt "Cichlids"..lol.. not Discus!! so took them home as for the store tanks were not set up for keeping Discus..figured they would be better off with me and my schedual at home..
thanks for the assesment, they are in good health and with my knowledge in fish keeping for 25 yrs and my contacts ( and here being one)I hope to enjoy them for a number of yrs too come..
as for the bottom of the barrel last on list.. its much to be expected if your ordering from a "supplier"..lol.. for a fish store..so we get what we get..and we cant do returns..this is why we I have them now..were no BigAls..and we dont get our fish from breeders.

Ive a 80gal waiting for Discus I would be looking at going through one of my breeders that Ive met and come to know well, at the Discus breeders club and Auctions. yes there are Discus then there are Discus..right we all want the best and claim we have them.. I can enjoy them all..Im not becoming a breeder nor into showing them so I tend to be not so picky as some, but am willing to pay the money for some of the nicer ones..and enjoy them all the same..and the tank will be set as to what the fish are coming from.."Before" they come home..
back to the topic at hand.. :) my water is fine just gotta work on the PH.. peat is my solution, not the ph down.. rather not.. my maintance for the tanks no need to fear I ve got it under control..have for yrs now..lol..
thanks for the help..
sue

[Hollowman]

Sue, yes I did read all of your post and replied accordingly.
A ph of between 6.8 and 7 needs no alteration, do not bother to buffer it down, stability is more important.
What is your ammonia reading, probably the most important one?

To get the best from these fish, bringing them on in a BB tank would be better, you can feed them more heavily and keep their environment far more hygenic for them with regular wipe downs and water changes.
If I am telling you how to suck eggs, just say :wink:

H

[1fish2fish3fish]

no im not telling you to suck eggs..lol.. just a little help with some encouragement
yah missed typing the ammonia.. its 0 Im doing a water change every other day.
trying to keep the water/ch to the same times as well.. Im up at six and I feed, feed again..gone by 9..
.the stretch would be till 4..feed again.. then again around 8-9.. do the water change, cleanning up any left over food on the bottom..
on my days off would be different feedings..probably more feedings.
Im removing the rocks as that should help with the PH and hardness..
the food im feeding now is Discus flake, Frozen BW, which I could use every 4 days or so.. brine shrimp, beef heart frozen ( they love that) frozen white mosq larv.. I have just ordered today live black worms and tubifix worms..does this sounds to be ok.. tell me what should I look for in the flake?.. this stuff was given to me, but havent seen it yet?
I enjoy this site and have come back again and again, the info and help is wonderful.. your one post I did feel a little put off by... that they were in reasonably good health right now you said?? meaning what I thought?..
putting that all aside.. Im sure glad they have an appetite.. that was one thing I was afraid of.. I do apolagize..Im just trying to make the effort to do whats right, sometimes it just helps to hear it from someone else..
Im going to try this right now..not that I really want to change them around again, but they seem to be doing as well.
Sue :))

[zar]

Why don't you try putting an airstone in the tank to provide more oxygen and see how that goes. I'd do that, i had similar problems once and airstone did help. But it could also be flukes. But I'd try the air stone and see what happens.

[1fish2fish3fish]

the fish are fine thanks..

[Hollowman]

Hi Sue, passions fly here you know :lol:

Sounds like you are doing ok to me. Not sure removing the rock will do much to the ph, remember that stability is far better for them, and your ph is fine right now. That said, a BB is really the way to go.

I find that my fish hate flake foods, and I've tried many. If you have it in your shop, Tetra Prima (sometimes called Colour Bits) is a good one, it's a granular food that sinks slowly.
Don't feed live foods or Tubifex, they harbour too many parasites and you'll end up with more disease than you can handle. As a rule of thumb, we never feed tubifex, it is grown in stagnant pools, same as live blood worm too. Frozen, irradiated bloodworm is fine though.
When I said the fish were looked in good health right now, I never meant anything more than that :wink: Buying fish from many sources can be like a game of Russian Roulette. Using a trusted sponsor from the forum is always a good idea, thats all.

Good luck

H :wink:

[1fish2fish3fish]

thanks H... Hmm no live worms, and yes I have heard about parasites, but how come so do!!.. can you culture your own?..white worms, mirco worms they all the same then too..
Now what should there diet consist of then? I can get just about anything.. what should I be looking for then?
Ive been told that frozen blood worms as only a treat?.. so what to fatten them up.. protein?.. Ive got beefheart..they love that but I cant feed it 2-3 times a day can I?
need help for sure now....lol
Sue

[ILLUSN]

you can feed beefheart mix as often as they'll eat, i like to feed it to mu juvies at least 3 times a day with a bit of breeders blend flake and color bits for color enhancement once or 2x a day. it is important to only feed as much as they'll eat in 30 sec-2min MAX (1 min is probably better) so as you dont foul the water.

with heavy feeding you need big changes i change 75-90% daily in the grow out tank (bout 220L-270L/day)