Heckel - Not Sure Whether to Treat

[TW]

Seeking opinions on my heckel. For some reason he has stopped eating. To me, his colour & fins still look good. No poos from him whatsoever, so that can't be good.

Moved him to a QT. I've already run him through 1 x Big L treatment & 2 X Prazi treatment - no change. In case he was stressed by being alone, last night I moved 2 discus from the display tank, to share QT with him.

No difference - not eating.

I have PP & have been considering whether to try it. Is PP a bit too tough on wilds?

Anyway, here are some pictures taken a few minutes ago. Maybe someone here can recognise something wrong that I can't.

Do you think he looks sick?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0744.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0743.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0749.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0751.jpg


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0752.jpg

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[TW]

***bump****

[DIY]

From the pictures, he doesn't look overly stressed or dark does he... is he breathing heavy?

I had good results using PP on my fry, but I have to admit I was scared to use it as it's not a treatment you do lightly due to the risks. It was a bit easier to decide to use once I found both flukes and I believe velvet using a microscope. Both of those parasites cause rapid/heavy breathing and both cuase them to go dark, which was consistent with the symptoms I observed and both of those are treatable with PP...

Your Heckel though doesn't look overly dark, even his fins aren't clamped so I'm not so sure PP is the right med :ug Of course that's only going by the pictures so it doesn't mean it's not an external parasite making him go off his food (that PP would treat) but it could also be an internal problem like Hex/Spiro which would mean a course of metro?

[TW]

that for your thoughts DIY

Still trying to figure out what to do. Here are some more details. I just don't know whether to try metro, PP, or whatever for him. Anyway, here a bit more info:-

Problem
Since mid Oct, a heckel has stopped feeding.

2. Symptoms
Visually, I can't see much wrong with him. Colour seems good, not dark, fins are not clamped. No suspect type poops. Not sure he is even pooping at all. He still looks as per pictures shown above.

3. What medications/ treatments I've already tried
[I]Tank was in darkness during treatment
Wk 1: levamisole (1ml per 7L) Water change 48hrs *
Wk 2: Prazi (1 tablet per 20L - as per instructions) Water change 48hrs
Wk 3: Prazi (1 tablet per 20L - as per instructions) Water change 48hrs
Wk 4: Levamisole (1ml per 7L) Water change 48hrs *

I think he sometimes pecks at the food, but not positive that he does. Even if he does, it is not enough

Tank/Water
Previously in planted community, but moved to QT. Initially in QT on his own, but then, in case being on his own was stressing him, I moved my two least favourite discus to share QT. No difference.
Community : 523L (138G) QT: 100L
He might be stunted. Although he previously ate well, these heckel never grew like they should. For his 1st 5-6 months with me, he was in bare bottom with 2 other heckels, daily wc, fed 3 times a day. One died in QT, the others seemed strong, but never grew that much. Moved to community tank when I needed their tank as a QT for new fish

5. Water change regime
Community: cycled since August 08. Planted. 2 x 50% wc weekly
QT: cycled since Jan 08. Bare bottomed. Daily 10-20% wc

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __29 C___
- ph __6.8___
- ammonia reading __0__
- nitrite reading _0___
- nitrate reading __5__
- Aged? __yes, aged 1 week, heated & treated (Prime)
7. Any new fish/plants added recently
A group of discus, who had completed a 6 week QT, were added to the tank early Oct. They had been wormed (levamisole / prazi) while in QT.

Not sure what to do for him. I don't like to throw meds in there, without at least a bit of a diagnosis on him. I do have some metro on hand (but not enough - so if that's the solution, I will need to visit a vet).

Wondering what the members here might suggest for him.

[ozarowana]

I would try the metro.

[TW]

Thanks ozarowana

Just as I am getting ready to go down the metro route, he appears to be eating again. 2 nights ago, he ate some frozen spirulina brine shrimp. Last night the same, mixed in the some home made beef heart. This pic taken last night

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0758.jpg

I will watch him for another day or so. I'm finding it hard to subject him to metro, while he doesn't look sick (at least not to me) but of course, if he stops eating again, that may be what I have to do.

[ozarowana]

You can try raising the temp for a few days to help him get some appetite back.

[rwel4809]

Hey TW,

have you tried lowering the PH? I used those indian almond leaves to slowly buffer down the PH in my quarantine when i had a fish with suspected flagellates that was not eating - it was ILLUSN's suggestion - and it did seem to help...

I know that some guys, like Samir, keep their Heckels at 4.5 or something like that....

just a thought...

Good luck with the treatment


R

[TW]

Hi all, thanks for repies.

I worry about being able to to keep pH stable if I lower it. I don't have a pH pen (or rather, not one that works) and the test kit doesn't go that low - so all would have to be guess work. If I thought I could keep it stable I'd do it. I do have those indian almond leaves, but would this give unstable results (eg lower pH when new leaves added & during the process of a fortnight, gradually rise)

Haven't started any treatment yet (other than Big L & Prazi, which was done previously). I managed to get some advice from Andrew Soh, who saw my fish pictures. He recommends 2 weeks on vitamin B (to encourage appetite) & only then, if still not eating, to go down the metro route. This is because of the lack of signs of sickness (other than not eating).

[m.ingram]

Hey tw quick question .How do you give the fish vitamin B.Do you put it in there food or add to water.How much do u use.

[TW]

Andrew recommended 120mg per 100L (non sugar based vitamin B). Crush tablet & disolve in small amount of tank water, then dose that to the tank.

I am trying "Natures Own Maxi B 100. After crushing, I remove the little bits of outer shell that cased the vitamin, before I add the water. I don't really like how it turns my water yellow & I have only just started dosing this since Thurs night, so don't know how it will go. Andrew is an expert though, so it must be ok if he recommended it. No change to eating by the little guy.

Dosing to the food would be better, but the whole problem with this guy is he's not eating :cry: I have metro & think that, in the end, this is what he needs.