New discus was added witha discus that had the pLague!

[ChiefZero]

I thought that the fish that all of a sudden died from what I believe is the the discus plague was healthy from a worm infestation got better so I bought another discus and added it. Well the first day the sick fish looked amazing but then the second day all of a sudden the sick on got real sick and died by that night. All the signs point to what I believe is discus plague, fungus looking stuff al over, slime peeling, and fin rot. Well I removed that fish as soon as I could but it did not make it. The other fish after about 2 days the other fish still looks amazing. It isn't eating well, and moves alot more and faster than what I have noticed that discus do. I accounted it for not eating by it being only 2 days here and that the only other discus died. The color of the fish is still amazing, no gil or slim problems and fins are almost always wide open, It is usual out in the open, exspecially at night, and does not run away from me when my had is near it either inside or outside the tank, no swimming at an angle either. Is this new discus actions seem odd or just a nervous new discus?Clown loach chases the discus quite alot Should I remove the clown loach? or should I get another loach to get them bugging each other.

What I did I was a 50% water change, new filter catridge, took out and cleanesd everything including plans and filter and added 3 teasppons of aquarium salt to the water. I got a thirty gallon or 114 l if i converted right. I adding all back in after a intense rinsing and scrubbing with water.
what should I look out for in this tank if I believe the other add discus plague?
Is there anything else I should do?
Feeding the new discus shold I worr about it not eating?
How long should I wait to get a new discus? I see the fish do better with more than 1 fish but I also do not want to indanger another fish.
Clown loach chases the discus Should I remove the clown loach? or should I get another loach to get them bugging each other.

THanks and sorry there are a few questions here
ChiefZero

[Hollowman]

I beleive the 'plague' to be an urban myth passed around by people who cannot properly explain or diagnose an ailment,(no offence to anyone here, just my opinion on the plague) you probably introduced this fish without any quarentine, it wasn't able to fend off whatever the other one had, and died. The new one that died was probably sick before you got it.
Plague.....no.....
Sick fish....., no quarentine............more than likely

H

Sorry to hear you lost a fish, never easy.

[ChiefZero]

NO NO. The new fish that I got didn't die and in fact looks very very good. The fish that died had been with me for almost a year now. Ya I didn't quaritine the new guy but how exactly would quaritining the new fish effect it from catching a disease in my tank?

Not all urban myths are lies.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Yes they are. Thats why they are called urban "myths" not urban "truths".


Ado

[ChiefZero]

WELL mabey it is a urban truth :P

[BigDaddyAdo]

I would love to see some evidence of it being a real thing. Its not that i entirely disbelieve its just that i am yet to see any real evidence.


Ado

[ILLUSN]

I'm happy to use "plague" as a description for a disease that has sudden darkening of the fish, heavy shedding of slime, finrot, heavy breathing, white jelly stools +/- HiTH and LLE.

yes i realise that is a blanket statement for what could be a huge collection of diffrent diseases or ailments.

What ever the cause be it spironucleus spp, bacteria or viral the treatment is the same. Metro to hold back any flagellets and contain bacterial infections such as fin rot, increase temp to make conditions less favorable for viruses, bacteria and fungi and to stimulate the fish metabolisum (help immune system to fight off disease), lower ph, again keeps bacteria down, big water changes to lower organic waste and relieve stress on fish and salt (1-2tsp-40L) help keep slime coat healthy.

as for quarentine, the point is to give any bugs effecting your new fish (which may not show any symptoms as its "used to" the bugs) a chance to be killed off by the new fish immune system (or treatments) BEFORE you put the fish into your tank where your fish (which are not accustomed to the bugs) may get sick.

the last 4 times I've lost discus has been where emergencys have come up (ie dads tank/my tank springing a leak) and i havn't been able to quarentine new arrivals. Holloman makes a perfectly valid point.


Sick fish....., no quarentine............more than likely

I've had a tank of 9 VERY big VERY healthy fished wiped out over 3 days when 3 new red turks were added without quarentine (who to this day still look great and you would believe they ever have or ever could have been sick).

now back to the original question:
I'd get rid of the clown loach, they get big, they like to live in schools the eat a lot, they swim alot. I'd let your tank settle for now, i'm assuming you still have your second discus, try some frozen bloodworms to get your fish eating again or some live brineshrimp. test your water if you over cleaned your filter you might have an ammonia or nitrate spike, if not you can head down to the store you bought it from and get 2 more they should all have the same diseases and bugs if all from the 1 place. your tank is small, but you can upgrade later. 30 gal (US) is about 120L which is big enough for 3 fish, 4 if you keep up the effort. id just go bare bottom myself for ease of maintance, no gravel no plats real or fake, keep up the water changes and you should be fine.

feed a balanced diet where ever you can, a good homemade beefheart mix is best, but if you feed a bit of NLS, a bit of breeders blend flake (or sera vipan or similar) some freeze dried black worms, maybe a flake with some spirolina in it (if you can get the fish to eat it) you should be ok. i try to avoid frozen bloodworms only cause my fish find them additive and i get better growth with other foods.

[ChiefZero]

ok thanks for the reply and the help. I will do what you say and NEVER have thos problem again!

thanks

[ChiefZero]

Oh ya cleanning my filter was basically but my hand in it and get some of the excess algea/junk out of there as well as the fall too.

[ChiefZero]

Call me paraniod but I see a very little amount of slime like stuff on the discus's pelvic fins. It is like small strings across them. Its pelvic fins seem to stay rather horizontal to body, never more than half way from being vertcal to the body. Also it seems to flick all of its fins except its cadual fin alot. Need to worry? if so what should I do?

[ILLUSN]

Can you post up your water quality? sounds strange.

[ChiefZero]

Ya.
MY amonia, nitrates and nitrites very low. everything is fairly close to zero.
the pH was at 7.8. I believe that this may be a problem, but I don't kow. should I lower the pH with some pH shemicals?
I would post a pic of this slime but I don't think you could not see it too good do to size and transluscentness.
it is actually gone now but I have seen this on some very sick fish so what you think.

[BigDaddyAdo]

A pic of the discus would also be helpful.


Ado

[ChiefZero]

ok here is a pic but I don't think that there is much to see. It looks nice!

I just saw it flick against a leaf, its the first time.

thanks
ChiefZero

[ILLUSN]

Constant steady ph is better than a fluctuating low ph so dont worry about that. ammonia and nitrite MUST be 0 below detectable limit of any test kit or else you'll have problems.

from that pic the fish looks fine fins nice and high, good edges al round, bars are dark but they come and go i'd let it sit for a week.

an occasional flick is ok, rubbing or scraping against objects is not. i'd just watch it for a few days and then if it still looks good get some tankmates from the same shop (prefferably the same batch).

[ChiefZero]

Oh those lines aren't really there it was just because I was bothering it with a camera, Its fins are actually higher than that it was heading towards the floor.
When I say that it was a flick.
it basically a very fast charge and and dart past barly touching the leaf.
thanks you word comfort me because of my recent bad experiences.

[TW]

Looks like a nice fish - I hope all goes well for both you & him
MY amonia, nitrates and nitrites very low. everything is fairly close to zero.Like ILLUSN said, amonia & nitrite must be better than "fairly close to zero". They should be zero.

[ChiefZero]

Well I took it to a LFS to get it checked so They told me it looked really good so I assumed it was close to zero. I always foreget to ask for exact reading, why...you got me i dont know.
hI won't get get my own electronic ammonia nitrates and nitrites and ph reader that works for both fresh and salt water if possible but can't find any good ones for a reasonable price. any recomendations

I will keeep all posted on its outcome

p.s. when i said those lines aren't there i meant aren't usually there.

thanks all.

[TW]

For ammonia, nitrite & nitrate you just use the test kits, usually consisting of test tubes you fill with tank water & add the instructed amount of test ingredients. You wait the prescribed time & then match the colour of the water in the test tube against the colour chart that came with the test kit.

It's always best to have your own test kits on hand, as in the case of an emergency you may not be able to get to LFS immediately & yet it may be important that you know what you are dealing with.

I don't know of electronic tests for those parameters. Not saying they don't exist, but I have never seen / heard of them. Others may be able to confirm.

You can get electronic test pens for pH. Are you in Aus? If you are, you could try our sponsors. I've also seen them on ebay.

[ChiefZero]

SADLY NO. I am in the states now. Do the sponsors ship out of AUS?

[TW]

Not sure, you'd need to check with them. But usually aquarium supplies are much cheaper in the States than here. Although currently the conversion rate of AUD$ to US$ is in your favour.

Have a look at the on line suppliers in US, plus also try ebay.

[ChiefZero]

Ya I will take a look.

oh ya since I got a picture up what kind of discus do you believe this is. I originally thought it was a red snakeskin but know I think it is a red turquiose. Am I correct?

[Hollowman]

Where abouts in the states are you?

[ChiefZero]

kalamazoo, michigan



p.s. Type plase :)

[waitaki]

your fish looks like either a blue turq or cobalt turq - but I'm quite often wrong....

[ChiefZero]

OK back to slime. It seems to have some on the edges of its fins, dorsal and anal, but still all its fins are wide open. I just turned on the light and that is what I saw, my cloach loach makes a mess at night of fish waste that night.
Still not eating even with blood worms!

[ChiefZero]

ok the slime stuff is gone now. Is this just a night time thing?

[ChiefZero]

Do you think that the fish is eating but I am just not seeing it?

[ChiefZero]

OK Another odd action! IT looked like it was biting a leaf, mabey food was on it, she went forward then backwrad and then forward then back then it darted pass the leaf and went to the back of the tank swam the edge of the tank back to the front. Again color and fins are fine! Anyone experience stuff like this? Is it just lonely, do I need another?

[BigDaddyAdo]

Discus will fret and get stressed/spooked easily if they are alone. Best to get a few of them room permitting of course.

She may have been trying to get some food. Discus like to graze. :)

Lets see if the slime comes back tonight. Are you running CO2?

Can you post a pic?


Ado

[ChiefZero]

CO2 no, Got plants and I thought they gave it off at night, and ate O2, But no CO2 systems. I really do not think I can get a pic of it the slimeis rather small. I will try to get a pic tommorrow though

[ChiefZero]

SWEEET! No slime this morning! I also saw it picking at a leaf. So a friend is what it appears it needs, 1 more for know. Do you think this is ill advised or does it appear like that is all it needs?
oK l will let you know how it going.

[ChiefZero]

Well I think that this discus is a vegetarian. All I see this discus eat is algea off plants. THe other one I have from the same shipment eats bloodworms quite well. Well i guess being a vegetarian is a personal choice so there is nothing I can do. :P