Not Looking Good

[swingn]

Hey All

Was hoping I wouldn't have to post here, but I'm a little lost.

My original Blue Diamond is not her usual self. For approx the last 24 hours her fins have been clamped to her body, her eyes have barred up & she has been hiding a lot more then usual. On the side of her body there appears to be a white-ish film (Only visable is certain light / angles).

I have done a water change this evening. PH, temp etc is all good & none of my other discus are experiencing any problems, same goes with the other various fish I have.

This issue only appears to be effecting the one fish. I dare say it is the most important fish in my tank as I have had her for around 3 years now. I'm really unsure what to do at this stage.

I have noticed that all the blue diamonds have been dark (But still acting, eatting as normal). 2 of them appear to have paired up & were going to lay, but the larger discus (The one that is sick) chased them off.

I have some broad spectrum meds on hand. I'm thinking I might give the tank a hit with that. Hopefully it'll buy me more time to get advice etc... Or hopefully it'll fix the problem.

Have taken a few pics. I know they aren't that good, but I'm hoping they will help.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0730.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0731.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0732.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0734.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0735.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0736.jpg

[swingn]

Ok, further to what I posted not long ago, I can confirm that she is coming out of hiding & picking at food... But nowhere near as much as usual & doesn't appear that she is really consuming much of it.

It appears that she is scared & is being very cautious of her movements. Now that food is out, she is once again chasing off other discus that come too close (Which is normal).

Obviously still very worried & I'm very unsure if adding the broad spectrum meds to the tank is wise...

I won't be home all day tomorrow (Work) so I really need to put something into action between now & then...

Please help...

[swingn]

Just about to dose my tank before I head to bed (Hope its the right choice, but would prefer to do something, rather then wait...)

I noticed she was passing what appears to be a worm! - White, long string... Appears hollow.

Took a photo, not the best, but better then nothing.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e238/swingn/DSCN0737.jpg

I actually run a course of Big L not more then 2 weeks ago. If it is worms, I'm guessing it was a type not covered by Big L???

Any advice would be great at this point.

Cheers

[swingn]

Well I landed up dosing the take with meds last night (Actually, it was just over a half dose because I have clown loaches in the tank).

Checked the tank out this morning & there is no change in my large discus - She is still sitting up in a corner near the heater, fins clamped eyes barred up. Really not acting herself.

Interestingly enough, the discus are all bunched together in the same area - Could this indicated anything? - but they are moving around as usual.

Any thoughts on what might be causing this & how to treat? I really don't want to loose this fish.

[ILLUSN]

She looks stressed, my first assumption would be internal paracites like flagella or worms. broad spectrum meds might knock your filter about a bit and thats proably why all your fish are bunching up together.

if you have onbe on hand I'd put her in a bare bottom hospital tank on her own, i'd set the temp to 30c-31C and lower the ph to around 5.0 over a few days.

whilst she's in the treatment tank I'd offer VERY small feeds as often as possible, try inducing appitie with blood worms but make sure she gets a more complete food for the bulk of the day.

in the hospital tank i'd start worming the fish with prazi (1 tab/20L) and levimenisole (2mg/L) while you try and track down some metro (dont use it yet keep it if the worming fails) and do DAILY water changes of atleast 80%. The super clean water will go ALONG way to getting your fish back into shape, and small regular feeds will help keep her strength up.

[swingn]

Thanks mate.

Sadly I don't have a spare tank around :( Does anyone have something I could perhaps borrow for a little bit? I'm in the Sydney area & I'll be happy to compensate in some way or form for anyones kindness etc.

Will pop in to Extreme tomorrow & hopefully pick up as much stuff as possible.

While I don't have a hospital tank, should I do another water change tonight? Or should let the meds I put in run their course?

Just for extra info, everything in the tank was normal / as usual until Wednesday... My Mrs thought it could've been over crowding as I added to more discus on Saturday.

[ILLUSN]

I got a spare 80L you can borrow if you dont mind a trip to penrith, proably got a spare heater as well.

if they went bad when you added the meds I'd be assumeing the meds dont agree with themI'd do a water change and just keep the water super clean it will do them the world of good . if you like give me a yell on 0413680501.

[swingn]

Thanks mate! Your a life saver! I shall give you a buzz later on & sort something out. What booze do you like? I've got to give you something as a reward :D

Well this morning when I woke up they were all hanging around together, but were still acting as normal (Fins not clamped etc) but there was still no change in my large / main Blue Diamond.

Once I return home I'll check everything out & most likely will do another water change & put the purigen back in the filter to remove any other meds.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Im in Bualkham hills. I have a 3ft you can borrow.


Ado

[swingn]

Im in Bualkham hills. I have a 3ft you can borrow.


Ado

Thanks for the offer mate but ILLUSN has hooked me up :D

Ok, so I've moved all the discus to the 80L hospital tank & have dosed with 2000mg of metro. Will be doing this for the next 7-10 daysm re-dosing everying day after doing an 80% water change.

As I do not have a water change tank / container, I will be using water from my main tank (Which now only has a few fish left in it - Looks sooo bare without my discus in there).

I've managed to find a 60L plastic container, which I've started to age some water in. So by Monday, I hope to be adding approx 50% brand new water, & the remainer from my tank.

From feed back I've received from Mr ILLUSN, it appears my large blue diamond has Hex - The other discus appear to be fine, but after a week of being dosed with Metro, I'm sure they'll be 100% :D . My main discus is currently very very dark, but seems to be cycling from normal colour to dark again (Noted particually for the first few hours in was in the hospital tank). It appears that she has shed a lot of her slim, which is what I was expecting, but sadly is still not eatting tonight. She is still hanging around in one corner of the tank, but she has been swimming to various other corners occationally.

Will keep everyone updated as thing progress... Does anyone know how long it will be before I can expect to see an improvement (If at all) :?:

One thing I would like to point out which I found very interesting. Tonight I noticed one of the smaller blue diamonds went very dark, but only did so while she / he was near the sick discus. Then she / he went back to normal. I've noticed this previously when they were in the normal tank, but assumed it was because she / he was ready to breed (Which was happening not more then a week ago). Anyone know why this happens? Should I be worried?

[ILLUSN]

if their not shedding slime i wouldn't worry they do darken up with "mood" just finish the treatment once you start it.

to help keep the slime coat healthy add 1 tsp of rock salt to the tank after each change.

[swingn]

if their not shedding slime i wouldn't worry they do darken up with "mood" just finish the treatment once you start it.

to help keep the slime coat healthy add 1 tsp of rock salt to the tank after each change.

Thanks mate! Will Do! :D

Well I've just changed the water & dosed up with Metro again - I also soaked some food in it before I added to the tank.

I haven't been home most of the day, but this morning her eye's had cleared up & she wasn't as dark. When I came home this afternoon her was towards the top of the tank & seemed to be having trouble stabalizing herself :(

She does appear to have more of a dip in her head... But, from some reading I've done, she also looks to be showing sign of the Discus Plague! Could this be the case?

When treating like this, does it get worse before it gets better?

The other discus seem normal. Eatting, swimming around etc. No signs of any problems touch wood (Knocks on head).

[swingn]

Really do not know what I should do now.

My large blue diamond cannot stabalize herself at all & is basically being flung around the tank via the movement created by the air stones.

She is still breathing fine & does from time to time fight her way back to the corner of the tank... But it doesn't take much / long for her to get caught up in the water movement again.

Did a little more reading & it is clear that she does have Hex / Hole In The Head... But this appears to have been set off by discus plague (IMO).

I've had this fish for many years & am very attached to her. I'm hoping she will pull through, but my hope is fading... I wondering if I should persist with the treatment (Which I will obviously be doing for the other disucs) or if I should put her to sleep? Personally, if all hope is lost, I would rather put her to sleep, rather then leave her to struggle & be in possible pain for the last hours of her life.

Please help...

[swingn]

After further examination - To make things worse - I've noticed that 2 of my other smaller discus are only breathing through one gill (But are acting & eatting fine with no funny behaviour).

This would suggest that I also have gill flukes :(

Seeing as I'm treating with Metro, I obviously can't treat them for flukes also...

Will my other effected discus be ok for the next 5 odd days while I continue my Metro treatment? Then move into treatment with PP?

Should I be completely changing the water in my main tank before putting the discus back in after treatment?

This is starting to become a nightmare :(

[swingn]

Well, I lost my large Blue Diamond this morning :cry:

I feel so terrible just leaving her their overnight to die :cry:

Others seem to be acting as normal still this morning. About to go to work... Hoping this situation doesn't get any worse...

[BigDaddyAdo]

I wish i had some cure all advice for you dude. I hope the rest pull through OK.


Best of luck...


Ado

[ILLUSN]

it does sound like plague, it does go hand and hand with hex, the darkening up and the shedding of slime was the tell tale sign. keep doing what your doing, make sure the air is up and the temp nice and high, if you can start lowering your ph down to 5.0 or even 4.8 little bit by little bit with the daily changes, YOU MUST KEEP UP THE DAILY CHANGES in the hospital tank!! AS MUCH AS YOU CAN PER DAY!! you have no filter you must dilute out all the NH3 and NO2. A trick i use is to drain down nice and low then refill then drain down again and refill, this dilutes all pollutants out to below 1% of what they were before the change. Hopefully you can still save the rest. IME blue fish seem to handel plague much worse than other colours, they seem to get it first and take the longest to recover but again that could just be my mis-observation.

the breathing from 1 gill is proably a response to the metro, make sure the oxygen is up and they should be ok

[swingn]

Bit of an update...

The remaining smaller discus are still going & are not showing any signs of discus plague &/or hex :D

Have dropped the PH (Gradually of course) & is now sitting at around 6. I've been adding salt after every water change also.

Only thing that I've have noticed is that the Blue Diamonds aren't exactly getting excited when I put food in the tank (Which is unusual for them). One of them also seems to be keeping its distance from the rest of the group, but that could also be that it is getting attacked a little.

From what I have observed, I would agree with ILLUSN about the blue fish handling it much worse. Obviously is was my large Blue Diamond that was infected first & now it's only Blue Diamonds that aren't acting themselves.

Tonight will be doing another 80% water change & re-dosing with Metro & will also be trying to lower the PH a little more also.

At this point in time, the biggest issue I have is getting the PH nice & low. As the water is coming out of my main tank with several other fish in it, I cannot drop the PH too low as it may effect the other fish. So just under 6 may be as low as I can go... Will that be low enough to aid the healing process...?

[ILLUSN]

the lower the ph the better, if you drop the main tank gradually they'll be fine my peps breed at a ph of 5.0 so theres no harm to your bristlenoses, loaches should be ok as well.

the metro makes the water "taste bad" so they always go a little off their food. they'll still eat and once your treatment is over they'll have their appitites back.

[swingn]

Thanks ILLISN :D

The remaining discus seemed to be a lot better last night. Very very happy about that to say the least.

All are picking at food, but not taking it all in, which would support the Metro making things "taste bad".

PH is getting lower slowly as advised... Me thinks I'm going to have to get a better PH tester as mine displays yellow only for anything under 6 :P

I've noticed some interesting behaviour while they've been in the smaller hospital tank. My two melons seem to be fighting a lot (Generally only when there is food in the tank), as in full head to head action! Have seen this is mature large discus, but not with smaller discus (7-10cm).

[swingn]

Everything has been going well with the treatment thus far :D

Now that I'm at the final days of treatment, I wondering what measures I should take before placing the discus back in my main tank...?

If I get the chance, I would like to treat them with PP just to ensure I've killed off everything possible.

In my main tank, I'm planning of giving the filter matter a good wash (In tank water of course) & a ver good gravel vac. I'll even remove all the drift wood etc to make sure I don't miss anything. Obviously I fairly large WC would be done also.

Is that all I really need to do? Or should I treat the rest of the tank with Prazi or something?

[Merrilyn]

Sounds like you've got all the bases covered. Do the PP treatment if you feel it's really necessary, but I'd leave it a few weeks before treating the whole tank with prazi.

Good luck.

[swingn]

Thank for the advice Merrilyn :D

I gave my main tank a good clean out on Saturday evening. Gravel vac, fairly large water change etc, just to make sure everything was nice & clean.

I treated with PP yesterday morning (Thanks for all your help Xtreme!) & have placed the discus back in my main tank & everything looks good. Back to normal I guess you could say :)

Only think I have noticed, was the Blue Diamonds eyes were barred up. But they are still eatting well & behaviour wise they are normal.

Going to keep an eye on them for the next few days to make sure nothing pops back up... Also planning on doing a minor water change on Wednesday, then get back into doing water changes every week.

Got my fingers crossed everything settles back in nicely.

I would to give a big shout out to ILLUSN & Xtreme for all their help & advice :D