What The Heck Does This Mean?

[pherfect]

Hi everyone, I aquired this little guy at a LFS a month ago and just started to treat with PraziPro when I noticed his poop didn't seem right i.e. clear. This morning I noticed the oddest array of poop hanging from him. Any clues? Water perameters are normal. His appetite at first was voratious, but now has slowed. While the pictures show his fins clamped, he doesn't appear to be stressed-his fins are currently in full bloom. This strange poop has since fully dropped. Hope to hear from someone.
-Chris

[waitaki]

Oh the poor little guy :( looks like nematoide worms.
check out the stickie on levemisole here:

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13278

praziPro doesn't kill nematoide worms so you will have to treat it with something like levemisole. I think you will have that available in the US.
good luck hope the little guys gets better soon

[pherfect]

Thanks, I'm on it. The PraziPro certainly seemed to flush something. His poops seemed more normal after that worm birth.

[waitaki]

yes - you need to treat for both types of worms.
one med doesn't treat all types.

[Hollowman]

Good advice given for the worm problem.
The fish does look very stunted though, and looks like he is in a planted tank with gravel, did you siphon up the passed worms? how often do you water change?

[pherfect]

I haven't siphoned the worms yet as I just started the Prazi treatment. I Emailed a discus dealer with the same pictures asking which of his products to use. He said the only worms visible to the naked eye are camallanus and tapeworm. The worms hanging are dead and to continue with the Prazi- which I'll do for now.
I just completed a Rid-Ich regimine 25% w/c for 6 days straight followed by 2 50% w/c 2days following that. Please spare me the lecture on quarintine, I'll never put a fish in my tank ever again until I get a quarintine tank setup-lesson learned!
Regarding the stunted growth I don't know what to say. He hasn't grown at all since I got him a month ago. Been feeding all the goods except beef heart 3-4 times a day and he's in a 180 gal to boot! :)

[Hollowman]

The stunting was done before you got him/her. Hopefully, and this isn't going to be a lecture lol, you will go to the sponsors next time you want a fish. They will have proper advice, and good healthy stock to choose from.

H

[pherfect]

Thanks H, but how do you know it's stunted?

[Hollowman]

Hi pherfect,

The classic signs are the enlarged eye. In a fish that shows proper growth, you shout be able to count 6-7 eye diameters measured vertically running through the centre of the eye. The other classic trait is the oval shape.
I just did a quick 'ms-paint' job of showing you how the eye thing works. I took your fish and compared it to one from a well known breeder. I hope you see what I mean.

H :)

[waitaki]

that's cool hollowman - for a moment I thought I was looking at Mr Burns' discus!

[BigDaddyAdo]

Thats just plain creepy.....



Ado

[Hollowman]

lol, it was the easiest way to show what I meant. :lol:

To be honest I think it is a good tool for any newbie to use and understand what they are likely to see in their lfs's. ( no offence intended pherfect )
You won't get that by going to a sponsor.

I should have explained that the eye is not enlarged because it has an infection. The eye grows at a steady rate until the fish reaches near adult size. In a stunted fish, its body has probably stopped growing due to enviromental conditions, ie too small a tank, poor water conditions, poor food, internal problems and a whole host of other ailments. Generally, in your lfs, they cramp fish in tanks, never water change (much) and cannot cater for their specific needs. Often the discus are in their tanks for a long time under those conditions, it just stunts/stops the fish from growing. As the fish ages, the eye grows as it should normally, but the body cannot, this can be seen in pherfect's fish as the 'oval' shape, as compared to the other one.
Age of these fish can also be hard to gauge. I generally look at the pelvic fins ( the long stringy ones underneath) to give me some indication. Less than reputable breeders will put older, smaller (stunted) fish in with younger batches just to move them on to the seller. So watch out guys.

H :D