CO2 bubble rate recommendation

[vanessa messig]

Hi everyone,

I have just added a (Aqua Medic) CO2 set up and was wondering what the best bubble rate would be for both discus and plants.

Could someone please give me some advise :?:

[Merrilyn]

I've moved this into the Amazon Garden forum for you Vanessa. I think you may get more replies there.

[dthomo]

Only way to be sure is trial and error.

You need to know your PH and KH then you can use this site http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
it has a great co2 chart to let you know your co2 level.

Try to start with 1 BPS and see what that does to your readings and increase from there.

Regards,
Dave

[vanessa messig]

Thank you Marrilyn.

And thanks for the site Dave, this is all new to me but am hoping to get the Co2 on the right.

[atti]

Hi Vanessa,

I would not use 1 bubble per second to start with, try approximately one bubble every three or four seconds and go from there. Test your pH and with a kH of 4 degrees use the chart on the link you were provided with. SERA suggest 1 bubble/10litres/minute at a kH of 4 degrees. So as an example for a 100 litre aquarium, this equates to 10 bubbles per minute or 1 bubble every six seconds. This only a guide but might be a good starting point.

Good luck, make slow adjustments and don't make radical adjustments before leaving home for the day.

You will find your plants will thrive with the additional co2.

Regards Atti

[TW]

I agree with dthomo, go with 1 bubble per second to start with.

Likely the size of tank, intensity of lights & type of plants will all effect the demand for C02 in your tank.

My 1st time with C02 was in 165L & at the time, I was getting advice from a lot of US hobbyist, who were all high users of C02. They also gave me the link dthomo gave you. My starting point was 2 bubbles per second and I have never gone below that. Do the tests as per the chart & you'll work out the bubble rate that's right for you.

[AHC]

i think you may also have to factor in little things like if you are bubbling in oxygen or have high water movement up the top of the tank which will release alot of Co2 from the tank.

[vanessa messig]

Thanks, you are all so helpful!!
I checked the chart and am in the green, so far so good. I do have quite a bit of water movement on the top and will leave it for now until I am comfortable with the CO2 and am home to be able to check it more often.
I guess patience is the key in aquarium keeping!
My sad plants are starting to sprout a little now.

[ILLUSN]

1bps makes very little differance to any planted tank, i start at 120-150 bubbles per minute and work up from there

[TW]

I agree ILLUSN that 1bps does little. A new C02 user can be a little nervous when 1st adding C02. Maybe worrying about gassing your fish etc.

My suggestion of 1bps starting point, was more so that vanessa could ease herself into it. Perhaps even proving to herself, by doing the KH / PH test, just what little effect 1bps does have, and so making the increase a little less worrying.

However, if not nervous, why not jump straight in at 2bps.

I started at 2bsp & have never gone below that. I probably run it now somewhere between 2-3bps. In the 7ft tank, there is a diffuser at each end, both pumping in 2-3bps. I keep surface agitation at a minimum, to minimise C02 loss.

Have fun vanessa

[Matt15]

I had the same first time nerves using Co2 and started with only 1bps. Those indicators are also helpful to watch and monitor your tank.
Even now after months of Co2 use I still only use 1bps for the following reasons.

- I turn the lights and of course Co2 off during the night. So during the day i'm using smaller amounts of bubbles which inturn has a slightly less effect on pH and water conditions etc.
- Turning the lights and Co2 off at night means u need to run an airstone and/or surface water movement. So i've just kept a very small airstone in the corner running on low 24/7 and of course the cannister filters create surface water movement.
- My plants are extremely green, healthy and grow at a steady rate. Should u run a higher bubble count per second your plants will grow much faster. The slower rate suits me more and makes maintaining plants easier.

Many people have said that i must use more but meh... the 1bps has worked fine for me. Its totally trial and error, so as long as you watch your children whilst trialing these changes you'll be fine. GL

[atti]

Hi,

I might be wrong and I do appreciate that there are some very experienced people here with a wealth of knowledge.

BUT, there have been some recommendations made to Vanessa regarding the correct CO2 bubble rate. I think that it is important to stress that the amount of CO2 bubbled into the aquarium is dependant on the volume of water, the kH value and the pH.

For example, you can't bubble 2 bubbles/second into a 60 litre fish tank. Also the bubble rate depends on how efficient the reactor/diffuser is.

Vanessa, watch you pH and your kH, that is what governs the amount of CO2 you put in your aquarium.

Regards

Atti

[vanessa messig]

Thanks Atti, Matt, TW and Illusn, this is a good conversation! I can tell you adding CO2 is nerve racking and little scary. My tank is 6ft long so big enough to be able to handle it. The reactor is a large one 'Aqua Medic 1000' and there are currently 2bps being absorbed. I had the CO2 switched off at night and found this morning the PH was at 7 from 6.4 and the KH 0 so I did some adjusting with 'Seachem' and it is now at KH2 with a PH 6.5 So far I have found that the PH is fluctuating too much. All I want to do at this stage is to stabilize it.

Cheers,

[TW]

Some people don't like pH controllers, plus they are an added expense, so I hadn't mentioned them until now & do so as Vanessa mentions the fluctuating Ph.

So I don't have these fluctuations, my C02 turns on & off, dependant on my target pH. It's not matched to the lighting sequence, but to the pH. Therefore, at times C02 will be on when the lights are off, or the other way around too.

Other people keep the pH more stable by countering it with a little coral in the filter media. I think maybe ILLUSN can tell you a little more about that - I can't, as I've never done it.

I don't have an air bubbler, as surface agitation helps the C02 to escape. I have my filter water return below the surface, again to minimise C02 loss via surface agitation. I know a lot of people recommend bubbling overnight, but my discus have never appeared to be gasping or struggling for air, so I have never felt the need. I have one on hand though, so could set it up quickly if I see a problem.

Cheers

[vanessa messig]

The pH controller sounds like a good thing to have. Is it the same as a CO2 indicator? I saw a dupla brand in the LFS and was wondering if it would be a good to add.
I have used a shell media to bring the pH level up and it works but you still have to keep an eye on it as it can rise quite high.

Cheers.

[TW]

A pH controller works in conjunction with the solenoid, so it is another gadget (costly). One of mine is the "Sera Seramic CO2 Control System " which is a combined solenoid/ph Controller unit. If you already have the solenoid (the thing that allows you to connect to a timer to auto turn off & on) then you probably don't want this one. Couldn't find a link on our sponsors site, but you can get it here http://www.aquaticlifeaquariums.com.au/index1.html . ASA do stock sera now, so they can probably get it.

Age of Aquariums has this one http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3481 Ben could probably tell you if it's compatible with your setup.

My 2nd unit is this one http://www.aquariumsuppliesaustralia.com.au/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3023 but I was lucky enough to get it off ebay as part of a complete 2nd hand C02 package .

Instead of having your C02 turned off by a timer, instead it turns on or off automatically in relation to the target pH that you key into the unit.

A lot of people do without this. so certainly not a necessity. I just like it, as my pH doesn't jump around. Probably by watching things carefully, balancing your shell media & bubble rate, you can even things out that way. It's just something to think about.

Cheers,

[vanessa messig]

Thanks for all the info TW, the CO2 Control System is the way to go. The idea of PH being controlled automatically in conjunction with CO2 is a fantastic ida and less stressful. May be expensive but sounds like a good investment in the long run.

I appreciate your help TW :)

Cheers,

[TW]

No need to buy pH buffering chemicals anymore, either.

Have fun

[vanessa messig]

Thats the beauty of it and Chemicals are expensive to, especially over time!!

All the best,

[TW]

Hi Vanessa

Just wanted to revisit this thread, as earlier on i said I didn't run an air pump when the lights are out. Because of what happened in one of my tanks earlier today http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17769&highlight= I'm going to change that asap. Will mean I will lose some C02 overnight, & therefore go through the bottle ever so slightly quicker, but at least if this same things happens again, the oxygen going into the tank will help things out.

cheers,

[vanessa messig]

Oh My God, you were so lucky!!!
It seems as though the fish were slowly being poisoned by the air outside and around the tank. So good you were home in time to deal with this massive problem.

Thank you so much TW for sharing this with everyone, its a very good lesson for all of us!!!