Cycling

[jesx57]

I've been reading some previous posts here about how to provide ammonia when cycling your tank. I decided to add some prawns in a stocking, and the ammonia levels are increasing nicely. My question is, when do I take them out? They are already white and fuzzy. I've already added some water from a small established tank (about 2 litres, don't know what good that'll do it) and lots of plants. I suspect I'll take around a month, it's about 180L.

Any thoughts on this :?:

[BigDaddyAdo]

I would also use a biostarter like Cycle or Seachem Stability. It will speed up the whole process.

Try and get some established fiilter media to add to your filter also.


Ado

[jesx57]

Yes, I've already added some biostarter its called Aquacycle made by Aquarium Science. I've actually ran out of it, so I'll have a look. Never seen Seachem products in the FS but have seen Cycle. Any other good ones? I don't think the Aquacycle is doing much.

[Merrilyn]

Cycling your tank will take around 6 weeks and the rotting prawns will provide the ammonia needed for your bio filtration to grow. (It's like food to them).

Just let it sit, yes I know it's stinky, but it's really the best way.

After a few weeks test your water. You should see a reading of ammonia but at this time, you should see a reading of nitrite too. Don't expect to see any nitrate reading till you come near the end of the 6 weeks.

Your tank is fully cycled when you get a zero reading of ammonia, zero for nitrite and a big reading of nitrate.

Remove the prawns, do a full water change while cleaning down the sides of the tank and you're ready to add a full bio load of fish. Your newly cycled filter will handle all the ammonia your fish can create.

I have used some of the bio starters in the past, but at best I think they are just a help. You still need to do the full cycle.

[jesx57]

Good advice, thankyou. Yes, I don't think the product I was using was working. Patience is the key.

[jesx57]

Ok, I've ran into another problem. I talked to the man at Aquahobby today, and he said to take the prawns out because they were polluting my water. He suggested I let the tank sit for two days, then add some ground up fish food each day, then after a week add some hardy fish like scissortails. I am really confused now. Can you help?

[DIY]

Copied from the Levamisole thread
http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?productid=16807&cat=394&page=1



I actually buy this one as it's more concentrated for the same price - dosage is 1ml per 14litres instead of 1ml per 7litres
http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php?productid=16808&cat=397&page=1


For Praziquental at least one sponsor of this forum sells this online :wink:

[DIY]

Oops :oops: somehow managed to reply to the wrong thread :lol:

[Greggy]

The man at aquahobby is full of it - he just wants to sell you something so he can make a living (profit).

Do as Merrilyn said and leave the rotting prawn(s) in there right up until you get substantial NO3 readings. The water may smell off for most of that time but you'll know when your bio filter kicks in as the bad smell will vanish and instead the water will smell something like garden compost (it won't stink its just a subtle smell like you get when gardening in the winter). The other thing you'll notice when the cycling process is nearing completion is that the water will suddenly clear up. Usually a cycling tank always looks a little misty, as if there is fog in the water swirling around. Once it clears up keep an eye out for NO3.

The best advice I can give is to be patient. It took a good 8 weeks for my daughters small 20L tank to fully cycle (using just fish food as an ammonia source). If I had put her goldfish in before 8 weeks it would probably have meant certain death.

Regards,

Greggy

[Hollowman]

We use a pure liquid ammonia, bought from a chemist or hardware shop. No rotting prawn, no chance of introducing any nasties from it.

[Merrilyn]

Ahhh yes, wish we could still get pure ammonia here in Australia. It was taken off the shelf after the 9/l11 disaster and has been almost impossible to get ever since.

I know the prawn thing isn't ideal, but there's really not a lot of choice now.

[jesx57]

We use a pure liquid ammonia, bought from a chemist or hardware shop. No rotting prawn, no chance of introducing any nasties from it.

Don't worry, the prawns are ones meant for human consumption, perfectly safe (until they rot!). Had to take them out, all that was left was grey sludge. I replaced them with some new ones (4 medium sized ones). Ammonia is on the rise, it's about 4 at the moment. Was 6 last night when I took the prawns out, put new ones in this afternoon. Could that be the cause of the drop or is it dropping for the nitrites to peak?

Wasn't all happy on the idea of subjecting fish, no matter what species to high ammonia levels - it burns their gills, and can shorten their lifespan (as far as I know). It's best to wait, so then when the fish are eventually added, I know they'll be much happier.

[Hollowman]

Ahhh yes, wish we could still get pure ammonia here in Australia. It was taken off the shelf after the 9/l11 disaster and has been almost impossible to get ever since.

I know the prawn thing isn't ideal, but there's really not a lot of choice now.

I seeeeeee!! prawns it is then :wink:

[jesx57]

Sorry to dig up an old post, just thought I'd let you all know my tank is now fully cycled. Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0 and Nitrates 20.

[Merrilyn]

Excellent !!

Now do a couple of big water changes with de-chlorinated water, while wiping down the sides of the tank to get rid of any scum on the glass.

You're now ready to add a full tank of fish, and your filter will happily cope with all the waste they produce.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Just remeber to gradually build up your stock. You need to give your bio filtration time to adjust....


Ado

[jesx57]

Well did a w/c this morning and checked the parameters. Surprised to see that ammonia was 0.25! I must have taken it as 0 when I checked last night. Nitrite is 0 and nitrate is 20 (even though I did a 20% water change. Was going to buy an "algae eating army" for my tank today (I've got a bit of snail problem) but decided to put that off until I get the ammonia to 0. I lowered the pH to 6.05 today, if you're interested. What should I do, just wait it out? I do recall the ammonia was pretty high at the time (about 8 or more). Any advice?

[jesx57]

Tested water tonight:

Ammonia: 0.5

Nitrite: trace elements

Nitrate: 30

Could my water be going through a mini cycle? Any thoughts on this? Should I just wait a few more weeks and see what happens?Need help - I am a bit confused - what could I have done wrong? Do I need to reintroduce the prawns? :? :?:

[jesx57]

Um, someone reply? Please?

[DIY]

The mort important thing is you don't introduce any fish until the ammonia and nitrite are 0, so you're doing the right thing there.

The bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite, and the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate need to be "fed" otherwise they will die off. If it has been a while since they were fed with the prawn then I would add another prawn into the tank - it's possible it's going through a mini cycle, if there is still some of each good bacteria in the tank then it should mini-cycle fairly quickly.

Not sure what happened, the good bacteria can be surprisingly sensitive to changes especially to things like chlorine in the water. Just run through what you have done, it may have been chlorine, a small amount of bleach, or perhaps too long without food (prawn)?

[Merrilyn]

Just remeber to gradually build up your stock. You need to give your bio filtration time to adjust....


Ado

Hi Ado, that's the whole idea of doing a fishless cycle with a rotting prawn. It gives off heaps of ammonia and grows a huge bio colony, more than enough to convert the waste produced by whole tank of fish. In fact, some of the bio colony will die off because of the lowered amount of ammonia in the tank. The fish are producing less ammonia than the prawn did, so the colony will reduce in size according to the amount of available food.

Jess, test your tap water. Is there any ammonia in fresh water out of the tap?

If your tank has been a day or so without the prawn, all of the ammonia should have been used up by now. Do another water change, retest your water and I think you'll find you are right to add fish now.

The very fact that you have a good nitrate reading indicates that the bio colony has matured.

[jesx57]

Ok, I've tested my tank water.

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

pH: 9.66

I know my water is surprising high, it's because the tank is an underground concrete one, so it's leaching lime into the water, which therefore raises the pH. If I do another water change, won't I be "uncycling" my tank in a way?

[jesx57]

I'll do a waterchange and get back to you with the results.

[jesx57]

Did a 40% waterchange, and then tested water:

Ammonia: 0.5

Nitrite: trace elements

Nitrate: 25

Should I just wait this out, I don't really know what else I can do?

[jesx57]

The mort important thing is you don't introduce any fish until the ammonia and nitrite are 0, so you're doing the right thing there.

The bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite, and the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate need to be "fed" otherwise they will die off. If it has been a while since they were fed with the prawn then I would add another prawn into the tank - it's possible it's going through a mini cycle, if there is still some of each good bacteria in the tank then it should mini-cycle fairly quickly.

Not sure what happened, the good bacteria can be surprisingly sensitive to changes especially to things like chlorine in the water. Just run through what you have done, it may have been chlorine, a small amount of bleach, or perhaps too long without food (prawn)?

Should I add another prawn until I add fish or will I make the ammonia and nitrite problem worse? If the tank goes through a mini cycle, does that mean the bacteria colony is DECREASING in size? If so, if I add my first lot of fish without a spike, then add my discus later, will it spike when I add the discus? Tricky stuff. :banghead

[TW]

How soon after your water change did you do the tests? Maybe do your tests again & see if the ammonia has now been dealt with. Did you dechlorinate your tap water?

My water straight from the tap always tests positive for ammonia & nitrate, but as my tank is cycled, it seems to immediately deal with the ammonia. If I put this water (with ammonia) in my tank, as I do twice a week at water change, by the time I have finished with the water change tank maintenance, if I test my tank water it will be 0 ammonia.

I'm not an expert, but if the good bacteria in your tank can't convert any ammonia in your tap water in very quick order, then I suspect something has gone wrong & you aren't cycled anymore. Maybe like DIY, there was a little to much time without the prawn.

If you still test positive for ammonia, I would add the prawn again.

Good luck.

[DIY]

Seems strange you test positive for ammonia after a waterchange.... I'm wondering if there is chloramine in your source water and the water conditioner your using is breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond releasing ammonia?

Can you test your source water for ammonia in a bucket exactly as you are adding it to your tank - IE with the dechlorinater/conditioner you are using?

[jesx57]

How soon after your water change did you do the tests? Maybe do your tests again & see if the ammonia has now been dealt with. Did you dechlorinate your tap water?

My water straight from the tap always tests positive for ammonia & nitrate, but as my tank is cycled, it seems to immediately deal with the ammonia. If I put this water (with ammonia) in my tank, as I do twice a week at water change, by the time I have finished with the water change tank maintenance, if I test my tank water it will be 0 ammonia.

I'm not an expert, but if the good bacteria in your tank can't convert any ammonia in your tap water in very quick order, then I suspect something has gone wrong & you aren't cycled anymore. Maybe like DIY, there was a little to much time without the prawn.

If you still test positive for ammonia, I would add the prawn again.

Good luck.

It was around 15-20 mins after I added the water. I've already tested my tap water, it reads zero for all three. I took the prawn out one night and did a waterchange the next morning, then tested the water. That's when I found the ammonia reading. Only today has traces of nitrite come up.

[jesx57]

Ok, I've tested my tank water.

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

pH: 9.66

I know my water is surprising high, it's because the tank is an underground concrete one, so it's leaching lime into the water, which therefore raises the pH. If I do another water change, won't I be "uncycling" my tank in a way?

Sorry, by this I mean my source of water that goes into the fish tank. I don't have town tap water. Hope I didn't confuse any of you.

[TW]

Thanks for the additional info.

I always thought that the bacteria can begin to die quickly, if we don't continue to feed it with an ammonia source (eg. rotting prawn, fish poop).

So, if you took the prawn out that night, then didn't do the water change until 12 hours later (next morning), then more time passes & still there's nothing in there to feed the bacteria, I think it may starve & start to die off.

Just my theory.

[jesx57]

I don't think there is any ammonia in the water the goes into the tank, but there's something going on in my fish tank. I can give you some info of the stuff I use to treat my water and other info in that helps:

Right - Today I used Aquarium Science complete water conditioner - says it dechlorinates and removes ammonia. Used Aquarium Science Aquarium Salts. Have heaps of snails in my tank. I used a granulated pH down solution. When I took the prawns out all that was left were a few bits of sludge - observed snails feeding off prawns. That's about all.

Unfortunately I've run out of prawns, so I'll have to use another option. What will happen if I just leave the tank be?

I'll test my water and get back to you about that.

[Merrilyn]

If you've run out of prawns, then use a tablespoon of dry fish food. It will rot down in a day or so and begin providing ammonia for your bio filter.

I think I'd be inclined to let it cycle for another week as your reading are still all over the place. Give it a week to settle with NO waterchanges, then retest.

[jesx57]

Thanks for the help everyone! I'm sorry if I've been pestering you heaps, I just wanted to solve this problem.

I've done what you said Merrilyn and left it for a week with a tablespoon of fish food.

[flaggy]

hi, i have 5 mature sponge filters. will squeezing the sponges onto the media of the new filter help much to cycle it quicker?

[jesx57]

I guess so, but it would be better if you put the sponges into the new filter with the other media.

[jesx57]

Hey guys, I'd just like to let you know that I tested my water yesterday and both ammonia and nitrite was 0! Your tip worked Merrilyn. I've just bought some fishes (2 corydoras and 2 yoyo loaches) to add some life to the aquarium. Hopefully all goes well.

Thanks again. :)

[TW]

Congratulations - now the fun begins :)

[jesx57]

Yeah, the cories are good fun to watch and the loaches are devouring the snails :twisted: . he he he.

[jesx57]

I just tested the water and I'm starting to pick up traces of ammonia again. No nitrite. The fish look fine but the rotting fish food is starting to run out (mainly because they are eating it). Should I just let the rest of the food rot and keep the fish in there to mini cycle it or put more fish food in. If I add more fish food, I feel I'll just keep going in circles and it'll happen again when the fish food disappears. Can someone give me some advice?

[jesx57]

Just talked to a guy who had the same problem. I'm just going to let the tank do it's thing. Hope it works.

[TW]

Good luck, I'm a little stumped now, as once my tanks test 0 ammonia & 0 nitrite, that's always been the end of the cycle for me. Not sure why ammonia keeps coming back for you.

Now you have fish in there, I don't think I'd leave food in there to rot. I'd only do that when there's no live inhabitants. Hopefully the light feeding & pooping of the fish you have will finish things off properly. I also wouldn't add more fish until the tank has done it's thing & you know it's fully cycled. Just my opinion, though.

Good luck

[jesx57]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.