Discus has laid eggs.. now what !!

[tomahawk]

:D My discus pair has laid a set of eggs on a cone that I provided them about 3 days ago.. the tank includes the pair and also 3 numbers of red eye tetra. Whats the next thing I should do, until the eggs hatch and after they hatch.. thanks in advance to all those who will answer..

[tomahawk]

I have another question: It says that the eggs will hatch in 48-60 hrs..based on the temperature.

The tank temperature is now at 29 degree C, would increasing it to 30 degree C be of help ?

[tomahawk]

No one.. nothing ?? :-(

[waitaki]

29 degrees is ok, they will hatch between 50 and 60 hrs.
What sort of tank set up have you got?
Is this the first time your pair have spawned?
I've never had much luck with fry in a community tank, others might have, you might get a few fry surviving.
Have you got some baby brine shrimp on the cooker because if the fry survive, you will need to supplement their feeding, they will feed off the parents for weeks.
The fry are attracted to dark objects so you will to cover all dark objects with light gauze type covering.
Cover your intake filters with sponges (light coloured) - move the armchair up to the tank cause you will find yourself watching them every moment of the day :lol: :lol: :lol:

[tomahawk]

Waitaki..Thanks pal, for your reply..

Have turned up the temp to 30 already, so should I bring it down to 29 again ?
Yes, this is the first spawn, about 100 or so eggs, maybe 10-15 of them infertile (turned white)
Mine was a community tank till a week ago, but as soon as the pair started their mating dance, I removed the other fishes..
Would it be ok to switch off the filter after the eggs hatch .. just not to take any risk ?

Other issues.. the parents are keeping very close to the eggs, sometimes taking turns, and sometimes the mom seems to be touching the eggs with her mouth and getting a feel that they are ok.. is this ok ?

Have kept the tank light on 24 hrs now, should I still leave them on or switch off at night, because this not being a community tank, chances of the eggs getting invaded is non existing.

What else do you suggest me to do apart from moving the armchair :-) Its just 24 hrs they have spawned, so I am still keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks again for your reply.

[Merrilyn]

Congratulations tomahawk, that's great news :P

Okay, first things first. Leave the temp alone. It's fine at 30 or even 29. Main thing is to keep it constant.

Leave the light on 24/7 for the next three weeks. The parents need to see their eggs so they don't damage them, and the fry need to be able to find their parents during the night so they can keep feeding.

Leave your filter on. You still need it working to remove the ammonia in the tank, but do cover the intake with filter wool so the babies don't vanish up the filter pipe.

They sound like very good parents. It's normal for them to stay very close to the eggs, sometimes blowing on them or mouthing them to remove any debris. As the eggs catch, you can expect the parents to suck the fry up in their mouth and blow them onto a clean area of the cone.

The critical time is when the fry begin free swimming. They need to attach to the sides of the parents within 24 hours or they will be lost. If you see the fry wandering aimlessly around the tank, or hanging around a corner of the tank, then drop the water level till it only just covers the parents, and remove or cover anything that is darker than the parents.

Fry are programmed to head to the darkest object (which is usually their parents) but can easily be confused by dark objects in the tank, like the filter or even the black rubber top of the heater.

Once they've learned where the food comes from, you don't have any further trouble.

I like to leave my fry with the parents for at least three weeks, or even longer if the parents are happy. Your main job now is to keep the water and tank pristine, with daily water changes, and keep both the parents and fry well fed.

Good luck, and enjoy :P

[tomahawk]

Thanks merrilyn, but i came back from my squash game and they have eaten away all the eggs :-( , seems like they were waiting for me to leave and then play this trick on me..

Please advice, what should I do next time they lay eggs, this was their first.. I am heartbroken :-(

[waitaki]

tough luck tomahawk, they do that if they think their fry is in danger.
Rest assured they'll spawn again just follow Merrilyn's advice for next time, you'll know when they start spawning again, they do there dance they clean the cone etc - it might be 3 days it might be 2 weeks, just get everything ready for then eg your white filter wool, try not to disturb them too much.
Have a read through the breeding basics sticky's it is a good source of information.
Good luck with the next luck, it will be pretty exciting for you when you see wrigglers, then fry, freeswimming

[tomahawk]

Thanks Merrilyn and Waitaki, is it possible to remove the cone after the eggs have been laid and place them in a seperate (empty) tank, having the same water parameters and temperature as the breeding tank, and then replace it back again in the breeding tank when the wrigglers are formed. Would this keep the eggs safe from being again eaten up ?

[Merrilyn]

Sorry to hear that mate, but it's not unexpected. There's lots of reasons they eat their eggs. They may have felt disturbed, and ate the eggs to 'protect' them, one may have felt that the other wasn't being a good parent, so they removed the eggs, or it could be as simple as they had forgotten to eat, and suddenly discovered they were hungry.

Fish rarely get things right on the first spawn. It can take ten or even 20 times for them to actually raise a spawn.

I still think your pair will make good parents, they just need a little more time to mature.

[tomahawk]

Thanks again Merrilyn, do you suggest me to remove the cone after the eggs have been laid and place them in a seperate (empty) tank, having the same water parameters and temperature as the breeding tank, and then replace it back again in the breeding tank when the wrigglers are formed ? Does this process works, did anyone try it ?

Would this keep the eggs safe from being again eaten up ? Or should I put mesh around the cone, the next time they lay eggs ?

[Merrilyn]

No, definitely don't remove the cone. They will eat the eggs immediately you put the cone back in with them.

The parents need to see and touch their eggs to stimulate the parenting instinct and increase the slime production to feed their fry.

Let them try at least another couple of times, and if they still eat their eggs, you can put mesh over the cone till the wrigglers have hatched.

[tomahawk]

ok...got it ma'am, thanks.. if egg laying ceremony happens again, you shall be the first one to know ..

[tomahawk]

No, definitely don't remove the cone. They will eat the eggs immediately you put the cone back in with them.

The parents need to see and touch their eggs to stimulate the parenting instinct and increase the slime production to feed their fry.

Let them try at least another couple of times, and if they still eat their eggs, you can put mesh over the cone till the wrigglers have hatched.

BAD NEWS first.. of the 40-50 odd eggs that my fishes laid again (2nd time egg laying of this younf couple), they let it stay till 48 hrs before some started to turn white and mother and father fish picked them off, then some more turned white and they picked them off too with some good ones, and I was sort of scared but held on.. by the time only 5 good eggs were left and I took them out and put them in a 1 gallon small tank (no substrata) with very low bubble running and temp set to 30 degree C like that of the main tank..

The GOOD NEWS now.. eggs have hatched.. all the 5 I took out and the wrigglers are wriggling at the bottom of the small tank :-). Thats a small leap for discus and a big leap for me :lol: I read in Discus Forums that I need not feed them anything till they have that egg like sac attached to them.. and thats it, its still attached and the eggs are now roughly 24 hrs old..

Now is the part where I need to SOS .. what do I do now, what do I feed them and when and whatever else that you suggest, please do..

Thanks a lot in advance

[Merrilyn]

Well I'm going to give you the good news first. You've got a confirmed breeding pair, and your male is old enough to fertilize the eggs ... so congratulations. And rest assured, they WILL raise a full spawn of their own.

Now for the bad news.

Unfortunately you've only got 5 fry, and their chances of survival are slim, however, it has been done before, and there's no reason why you can't be successful.

Hand raising fry is really difficult. It's a very fine balancing act between giving the fry enough to eat, and keeping the water clean. Any trace of ammonia in the water will immediately kill your fry, so it's really a case of offer some food, give them around 20 minutes to feed, then clean the tank and do a big water change. They need to be fed around 6 times a day, so you're in for a lot of work.

Have a read of this sticky :-

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6930

where this topic has been discussed before.

Good luck. Hope it works for you :P

[tomahawk]

Thanks a lot merrilyn.. let me try, and with a bit of luck and a pinch of blessings.. nothing is impossible..

[tomahawk]

I have been through that sticky a dozen times and it should be of help.. however I wanted to know, if it will be ok to feed finely crushed and powdered Artemia Shrimp and Spirulina to the fry's ?

[Merrilyn]

Powdered artemia and spirulina will be fine to feed after the initial feeding of egg yolk.

"The fry food is a mixture of hard boiled egg yolk and raw egg yolk mixed together, and smeared around a clean shallow bowl. "

Discus fry are different from any other fry that you may have encountered. For the first week of their life their instinct is to feed from the slime coating produced by their parents. You may have heard this referred to as 'discus milk'.

That's one of the things that makes discus such a challenge to raise. The eggs really need to be left with their parents, so the hatching fry can feed from the sides of both parents.

You can put newly hatched discus fry into a tank loaded with food and they will ignore it and starve themselves to death. For at least the first week, they don't go looking for food. They expect their parents to be there, and provide them with their first meal.

We need to replicate that first food and feeding from the parent's side with egg yolk smeared around the sides of the tank or container in which they have hatched.

Some have tried smearing the egg yolk mix on a dark circular piece of plastic, shaped like a discus, and lowering that into the water near the fry. Hopefully they think this dark object is their parent, and they go looking for the food they know will be produced on the sides. When the fry have been feeding for around 10 minutes, the disc is removed and cleaned, and the fry tank is given a 100% water change.

Others, including Jack Wattley used shallow white plastic bowls, smearing the egg mix around the top of the bowl, then adding water till the mix is covered. Once again after feeding, they need a full water change. Egg yolk goes off very quickly, and will soon pollute the water, resulting in the death of the fry, which is why they need clean water after feeding.

After the first 5 - 7 days, you can discontinue the egg yolk mix, and start feeding newly hatched baby brine shrimp. At this age, the fry will recognize the shrimp as food and chase after them.

Frozen or powdered shrimp is not quite as good, as it doesn't stimulate the 'chase' response in the fry, and they don't readily accept it as food.

[tomahawk]

Powdered artemia and spirulina will be fine to feed after the initial feeding of egg yolk.

"The fry food is a mixture of hard boiled egg yolk and raw egg yolk mixed together, and smeared around a clean shallow bowl. "

Discus fry are different from any other fry that you may have encountered. For the first week of their life their instinct is to feed from the slime coating produced by their parents. You may have heard this referred to as 'discus milk'.

That's one of the things that makes discus such a challenge to raise. The eggs really need to be left with their parents, so the hatching fry can feed from the sides of both parents.

You can put newly hatched discus fry into a tank loaded with food and they will ignore it and starve themselves to death. For at least the first week, they don't go looking for food. They expect their parents to be there, and provide them with their first meal.

We need to replicate that first food and feeding from the parent's side with egg yolk smeared around the sides of the tank or container in which they have hatched.

Some have tried smearing the egg yolk mix on a dark circular piece of plastic, shaped like a discus, and lowering that into the water near the fry. Hopefully they think this dark object is their parent, and they go looking for the food they know will be produced on the sides. When the fry have been feeding for around 10 minutes, the disc is removed and cleaned, and the fry tank is given a 100% water change.

Others, including Jack Wattley used shallow white plastic bowls, smearing the egg mix around the top of the bowl, then adding water till the mix is covered. Once again after feeding, they need a full water change. Egg yolk goes off very quickly, and will soon pollute the water, resulting in the death of the fry, which is why they need clean water after feeding.

After the first 5 - 7 days, you can discontinue the egg yolk mix, and start feeding newly hatched baby brine shrimp. At this age, the fry will recognize the shrimp as food and chase after them.

Frozen or powdered shrimp is not quite as good, as it doesn't stimulate the 'chase' response in the fry, and they don't readily accept it as food.

Thank you, will try with the egg yolk thing.. but should I wait till the fry are free swimmers and the egg sac has dissolved ? Please do advice.

[tomahawk]

Powdered artemia and spirulina will be fine to feed after the initial feeding of egg yolk.

"The fry food is a mixture of hard boiled egg yolk and raw egg yolk mixed together, and smeared around a clean shallow bowl. "

Discus fry are different from any other fry that you may have encountered. For the first week of their life their instinct is to feed from the slime coating produced by their parents. You may have heard this referred to as 'discus milk'.

That's one of the things that makes discus such a challenge to raise. The eggs really need to be left with their parents, so the hatching fry can feed from the sides of both parents.

You can put newly hatched discus fry into a tank loaded with food and they will ignore it and starve themselves to death. For at least the first week, they don't go looking for food. They expect their parents to be there, and provide them with their first meal.

We need to replicate that first food and feeding from the parent's side with egg yolk smeared around the sides of the tank or container in which they have hatched.

Some have tried smearing the egg yolk mix on a dark circular piece of plastic, shaped like a discus, and lowering that into the water near the fry. Hopefully they think this dark object is their parent, and they go looking for the food they know will be produced on the sides. When the fry have been feeding for around 10 minutes, the disc is removed and cleaned, and the fry tank is given a 100% water change.

Others, including Jack Wattley used shallow white plastic bowls, smearing the egg mix around the top of the bowl, then adding water till the mix is covered. Once again after feeding, they need a full water change. Egg yolk goes off very quickly, and will soon pollute the water, resulting in the death of the fry, which is why they need clean water after feeding.

After the first 5 - 7 days, you can discontinue the egg yolk mix, and start feeding newly hatched baby brine shrimp. At this age, the fry will recognize the shrimp as food and chase after them.

Frozen or powdered shrimp is not quite as good, as it doesn't stimulate the 'chase' response in the fry, and they don't readily accept it as food.

Thank you, will try with the egg yolk thing.. but should I wait till the fry are free swimmers and the egg sac has dissolved ? Please do advice.

[Merrilyn]

Yes, definitely wait till the fry are free swimming and looking for food. Prior to that they are usually attached to the cone by a sticky thread on their head, or if they've fallen from the cone, they will be laying on the bottom of the tank.

Once they have digested their yolk sack, they will be looking for food, and it needs to be available straight away. They only have about 24 hours to find food, or they will become too weak to eat, and starve to death.

[tomahawk]

Thank you Merrilyn, I have already started with the egg yolk. is there anything else I can feed them ?

The egg yolk is dirtying the water rapidly as you earlier indicated and changes are becoming frequent.

Can I offer them any other food apart from the yolk ? How many days should I continue with the yolk ?

[Merrilyn]

Egg yolk mix is the only thing that they will digest at this stage.

Are they actively eating the mix from the side of the bowl, or are they still just swimming aimlessly around ?

If they're feeding properly, you should see their little bellies grow and take on a yellow colour. The skin is almost transparent, and what you're seeing is the yellow mix inside the stomach.

[tomahawk]

Merrilyn, sorry for being late to reply, had a few other urgent work to take care. The fry are now 4 days old, and yes they are feeding well. Touchwood.

For how many more days should I feed the yolk ? I have also added some blackwater extract and Tetra Vital Liquid vitamin to their water. They seem to be doing ok till now and if its not my visual error, they have also grown a tiny bit in size.. :lol:

Another news :-) my pair has laid eggs again, about 50-60 (little more than the last time) and I have decided to keep the parenting now completely at their responsibility for this batch. I am more than busy taking care of their last batch's leftouts..

Your suggns. are more than welcome as usual. :idea: