PH Crash-Help

[tessa]

Need help! My 58 gal tank ph has crash. The water parameters are as follows.

PH 5.5
NO3 20 ppm
Ammonia is off the charts
Nitrite .2

The tank has been set up with discus for 4 weeks. This past week the ph crashed. LFS told me to do about 5 gal. water change every four days, till the ph hit 6.5. They said that I don't want my ammonia to drop to fast or I could loose my discus. Should I be doing larger water changes or do the 5 gal every four days?

Tessa

[Hollowman]

Again, a lfs to the rescue!!!!!!!! :twisted: NOT!!

First thing you want to do is reduce the ammonia. Luckily with the ph being low, the ammonia would in part be converted to less toxic ammonium.
What is the ph of your tap water?

If your tap water is not too high, then bigger water changes 'every day' would be my advice.

You did what :twisted: most people new to fish keeping do (if it is new to you if not, you should know better) , which is rush the cycle, add fish asap. It does not work this way!!!

You must be very patient........it's the second rule.

Now do a water change, 40% should do for today, same tomorrow same the next day. Feed very little.
Is the tank planted?

hollowman :roll:

[tessa]

The tap water is 8.0 and I have a bb tank. Yes I know better, but the lfs that i got the discus from had told me to cycle the tank with the fish in it. The discus are eating quite well and do not look stresss, but i'm stressing for them.

Thanks for the help.

[Hollowman]

Ok,

The lfs was wrong, many people do a fishless cycle that only takes a couple of weeks, and it doesn't stress or kill the fish.

PH 8 from the tap seems rather high, when did you last check it, and how old is your test kit?, could be your kit/test is not correct.

As I said, don't feed heavily as this will only add to the ammonia level, water change as I said for now, monitor closely.

I don't mean so sound hard on you, it's just I know that lfs's give very bad advice, and because we are supposed to trust them, we do, then it goes wrong.

Let us know how it goes, start with fresh tests ok. :wink:

[tessa]

I took some water to th lfs and had the ph checked and it is 8.0. Okay will I need to bring the tap water ph down at all? Or just use it as it is and use Prime to declorinate it?

[ILLUSN]

DO A MASSIVE WATER CHANGE, if you can do 2 in a row, you want to get your ammonia to 0 ASAP or your fish are dead.

if all you have is a ph of 8 then you'll have to work with tat, if you can get a big plastic bin and use that to condition your water before it goes near your tank, use HCl or acid buffer to bring your ph down to around 6.5-7 and just keep doing massive water changes every day.

[fishgeek]

i think a large water change would be a problem for the fish

ammonium is likely in acidic water and , as has been mentioned, is not toxic to the fish like ammonia...
if we encourage a pH rise the ammium will convert back toward ammonia

and

if that is all just theory and in the real world makes little difference between pH of 5.5 and 8.0 then the ph swing isnt going to be appreciated in 1 day

maybe something like ammo lock
maybe take the fish back to the lfs till the water is sorted so you dont have to be juggling water quality, filter cycle and fish health

i would be inclined to try and get the fish out of the tank
then you can leave the ammonia high for the bacteria to feed off and establish in the filter

andrew

[Hollowman]

Yeah, I was thinking the huge ph swing (due to big water changes) might knock the fish back, thats why I suggested smaller ones each day.

[tessa]

I did a 40 % water change last night. Should I do a larger water change or should I stick with 40 %? How long should I contuine to do everyday water changes? I'm aging the water today and will do another water change when I get home.

thanks for the help

[fishgeek]

it would be interesting to know the readings now

water change will dilute/ remove the ammonia thats a good thing for the fish and a bad thing (well it will slow the biological filter maturation) for the filter

water change will appear to be with higher higher pH water and may cause an increase in pH, big swings will not be appreciated by fish
different bacterial strains prefer different pH ranges

it's a balancing act

[Hollowman]

Stick with the 40% changes for now. There is a product called AmmoLock, which you can add to take away the ammonia in the short term. But I still suggest daily changes until a norm is reached.

[BigDaddyAdo]

Can you get some filter media from an established tank? Are you using a biostarter like SeaChem Stability? What are your water parameters now after the first wc?


Ado

[tessa]

About two week ago I had use Turbo Start.

As of this morning the readings are as follows.

ammonia .8
no2 .2
no3 0
ph 5.5

I will do another water change this evening.

Thanks for the help.

[Hollowman]

Tessa, your ammonia level should read zero. Carry on with the water changes as you have, and try a test again after a few hours. Carry on doing this until you reach zero ammonia. Feed only enough for them to eat, and siphon out any left overs.
hth
quick question, what is your tank temp?
H

[tessa]

Tank temp is 86

[tessa]

As of this morning my water parameters are as follows.

PH 6.5
no3 5.0
ammonia .2
no3 .2

I also added gravel and a filter from my cichlid tank.
Been doing 30 % water changes everyday.

Thanks for all the help.

[Hollowman]

Thats better, don't go too mad lowering the ph now though. 6.5 is fine. Still got to get the ammonia to zero though. How are the fish now ?

H

[tessa]

The fish are doing much better they are just a little hungry, since I haven't been feeding them much. Just once a day for now. I will do another water change today.

[AHC]

Great to hear things are getting better. keep it up. :)

[fishgeek]

good to see the pH didnt come up that much either
now it's just abalance of no ammonia to burn fish and some ammonia to feed bacteria

andrew