Hi All

[lyrical]

l'm so glad l found this forum as l'm thinking about discus for my 2 1/2 foot tank (about 120-130 litres or 50 gallons)in my living room its been set up for a couple of weeks now and l've got 6 rummy noses, 10 harlequin , 2 blue rams, 2 orange sucking cat fish and 2 bronze cories, 2 orange bristlenose in the tank. Could l put anymore in this tank besides the discus themselves l was hoping for a few more rummy noses. l love sitting and just watching them school it,s mesmerizing.Ive been slowly turning the temp up every few days trying to get these fish acclimatised to the higher temps. Its currently set at 29c. Is this ok for a discus tank and how many discus could l have in this tank????,,Is there anyone on the forum who is breeding in melbourne as l was told to try and buy locally breed fish suited to Australias water PH rather than buying imported as the PH they come from is different. Ive always wanted discus but never been able to now l can and l want to do everything correctly.

The tank currently has a UGF in it but l'm saving the money to buy a cannister filter.Gosh they are so expensive I'll put a couple of pics below so you can see my tank.Dont worry about the guppies and platies in there l took them out and put them into one of my other tank.

[/img]http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/Lissau/PlantsSpreadout2.jpg[/IMG]

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd73/Lissau/PlantsSpreadout.jpg[/img]

[rwel4809]

Lyrical,

Your tank looks beautiful, but as it is you are already overstocked. 120 litres works out to be 30 gallons, not 50.

The rule of thumb for tropicals (excluding discus and other messy fish) is 1 inch of fish per gallon - you already have fish with an adult potential of over 50 inches by my calculations!

You must not add Discus to this tank. Discus need 10 gallons, or 40 litres of water per fish. They are also very messy and need strong filteration rated at least twice the manufacturers capacity for the tank.

Discus are also schooling fish and like to be in groups of 4 or more.

If you add any more fish to this tank you are heading for disaster (trust me I've overstocked before and it always leads to misery!!!)

UGF's are not good for planted setups, as the roots of the plants will tangle in them and you will also have to constantly disturb the plants to do periodic total stripdown clean outs of the tank...

I recommend that you save up and read up to get the best equipment you can, and the best knowledge you can before embarking on Discus - They are reasonably easy to keep if you have enough tank space and you are prepared for the work you have to put in - water aging/prep, water changes, heavy feeding, regular filter cleaning etc...

I don't want to put you off.. I just don't want you to kill a bunch of fish and wonder why...

HTH

Robert :)

[Hollowman]

Robert has hit most points for reasons NOT to get discus and put them in this tank.

If you intend to keep discus, the first thing you need to do is read.

Here are a couple of extracts from a post from just a few days ago.

Tip 1, Read.. read.. read.. is the best advice I can give.
Tip 2, Never rely on local fish shop advice.
Tip 3, Lots of good water is needed.
Tip 4, Feed a high quality varied diet.
Tip 5, For starting out, a BB (bare bottom) tank would be best.
Tip 6, Ask questions, however silly it might sound.
Tip 7, Don't be fooled into throwing meds at the fish.....ask first
Tip 8, Use the sponsors here to source your fish, cheap lfs fish are not going to be best.
Tip 9, Read... read... read....

In addition to the good advice from hollowman, here's my tips

1, You don't really keep discus, you actually keep water... the fresher and cleaner the water is, the better it is for the discus that have to live in the water you keep.

2, If they look sick or stressed, start with the assumption it's a water quality issue, and then work on other possibilities once YOU ARE SURE it's not a water quality issue.

3, Using the wrong medication on a sick discus in poor quality water is not a good combination..Providing excellent water for a sick discus without harsh medications has a higher chance of success by giving the immune system a chance to do it's job IMO.

4, If you feel like doing something to your tank to improve things... do a waterchange

5, Watch your discus and learn their behaviours.. Skittish, shy discus that constantly hide or "dart" about are telling you things are not ok... See (2)

6, Once you have done (5) for a few weeks you will understand this one. I find there is always one I like to call my "early warning indicator" it's the one that is first to show signs of stress, go dark, hide in the corner, eat less, show stressbars or whatever his/her most obvious stress sign is. I can take a glance at one discus in my main tank (my current "early warning indicator"), and it tells me all I need to know! If that one discus is happy then everything is good!

7, Assume anything you are thinking of adding to the water is going to either degrade the water quality or stress the discus... this will help explain why you will often see advice like "a stable pH is more important than a low Ph"

8, Avoid overstocking, it stresses discus out and leads to poor water quality as well. Whilst discus like to school they also like to have their own little territories especially when they sleep, it sounds like a contradiction but if you do (5) you will understand what I mean.

9, less important than (8) above - IMO discus are "happier" in larger groups. it helps to spread aggression and discus like to school together... when I first started with discus it was commonly advised to have a minimum of 6. If you want a large group without overstocking there is a way... buy a larger tank

10, re-read hollowmans tips above, then re-read 1-9 of mine

Frequency of water changes depends very much on a couple of factors, stocking levels, feeding, breeding, raising.
Whatever one though, the frequency is far higher than that of which you have been used to. Most of us try to water change most days, or every other day, some can get away with leaving maybe another day longer.
Water quality is the main issue for discus keepers. Discus demand a stable and high water quality which they will thrive in, they quite literally 'shine' when you have this right, and will let you know when it is wrong.
Changes of 100% per day is not uncommon, sometimes more. In my larger tanks I would be changing 50% every other day, but I stock lightly, and feel I can get away with this. My fish are happy with this, I don't have disease or health problems.
Others will have their opinions on this, as there are several different ways of changing water.

As for 'heaps of plants' again it totally depends on what you want from a discus tank. Discus eat lots of high protein food, which means they pass a lot of waste. Uneaten food and waste can be difficult to remove from a heavily planted tank, and in my opinion makes maintenance more time consuming and awkward. Because of this, I choose you run BB tanks (bare bottom) or tanks with a very thin (1/2'' thick) layer of sand on the bottom, making daily clean-ups far easier and hygenic.
Most fish you will buy have been raised in bare tank conditions, and therefore know no different, so it is not unusual for them. Wild caught fish however, would prefer a proper biotope which can be achieved and can look stunning.

As for tankmates for discus, there are several different types to go for. Being mostly slower moving fish, discus get stressed by big, even small, faster moving fish, so avoid these. I would go for fish that are Amazon based, so there are lots to choose from. Do not include any type of 'barb' or common Pleco's
Again, others will add to this.

Your tank is too small for discus, remeber, these fish can potentially grow to 8" each.
A good external cannister filter does not need to be expensive, the Eheim 2217 is excellent, bulletproof and cheap.
Dump the undergravel, if you want plants.

Ok all this said and understood, I would love you to have discus, they are such rewarding fish, it's just that if you get the wrong advice right off the bat from a local fish shop, you will most likely kill your fish and be put off for life.
Ask questions here, as we are all passionate about our fish, (does it show :roll: )

Hollowman :)