Your experience with HITH and HLLE

[fishguy2727]

I need to know about anyone's experience with HITH and HLLE. If you have ever experienced this disease please let me know about it.

Things I need to know about:
-Species of fish
-symptoms (wide shallow pits, narrow deep pits, discharge, locations on the body)
-care before it happened (exact diet, carbon in the filter?, nitrate concentration)
-treatments attempted, which worked, which did not
-final result

If you don't know all of this that is fine, I need all the information and cases I can get.

[ILLUSN]

Have had massive problems with this disease in the past in all my discus, in those days i used carbon in the filter and ceramic noodles and wool only (very little biological filtration), i had high NO3 (over 50ppm) Diet was exclusivly tertabits and frozen blood worms.

all fish at the time showed both wide shallow pits on the lateral line and deep pits on the head area.

over the years i swiched all my filters to biologal media (NO CARBON just sintered glass), got bigger tanks (up from a 160L to a 340 then a 450 then a 650L) and stocked much less hevily (now stocking 1fish/80L), did more water changes (from 30% once a week to 50% 2x a week) got my NO3 to below 5. changed the diet to include beefheart mix, a good quality flake, brine shrimp, and still a little color bits. I havn't had the disease in over 3 years.

[fishguy2727]

Ever used metronidazole to treat?
Ever had any discharge out of the holes, especially the narrow deep ones on the head?

[zar]

I never had hole in the head in any of my discus but i had two balloon rams who developed it in the discus tank, i'm not sure of the causes i thought it was the beefheart that doesnt go well with the rams but i'm not sure.
at the same time i had other cichlids in that tank,discus, angels etc no one got it. i treated the rams wit melafix, pimafix, malachite green for the wounds..they both died

later on i bought an additional angelfish, a small golden angel, he stopped eating and developed a black pimple like thing on his head..it was the beginning of hith and was very visible due to the fish being white.
he didnt want to eat, i took him out in a smaller tank and then i used to take him out, force feed him tiny bits of metro tablet daily, and rub powdered metro tablet on his wounds that were pretty bad at that time. i was also adding salt to the tank.

he recovered well after a week or so of that treatment, all wounds healed, and since he was growing you could hardly see the scars after a couple of weeks.
metro helped my problem. Some people also recommend indian almond leaves for treating hith. it's also described in penang discus.

[TW]

take him out, force feed him tiny bits of metro tablet daily, Zar, I'm considering this force feeding of metro, if things get back enough with a heckel I have at the moment. Never done it before. I was hoping you wouldn't mind explaining how I go about it.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[ILLUSN]

I used metro to treat, it worked for a while but the disease always came back, poor water quality and poor diet bring it on (dosage was 400mg/100L).

there was some discharge from the wounds but it looks like a mucus or slime.

Tw to force dose metro get a small syringe with an extention on it, mine has a small stainless steel bulb at the end so it doesn't damage the internals of the fish, crush half a tablet and add just enough water so it disolves then force 0.5ml into the fish's mouth making sure it doesn't come out the gills (you need to go about 2.5cm into the throat).

if anyone is going to try this, one slip WILL KILL YOUR FISH, it will tear their throat and they will bleed to death or starve to death as they can no longer swallow. Liquid metro is much better for this then tablet metro.

[TW]

will only use this method as a last resort ILLUSN, when it becomes apparent death is unavoidable. I don't think my water quality is poor (daily water change). Though, it's likely the good bacteria has been pretty stuffed around during the metro treatment.

Diet is poor for this guy - but that's only because he's on a self imposed starvation diet. He is offered home made BH & mals black worms daily.

Thanks for the advice on the syringe method. I have those small syringes, but don't really now what you mean by a small stainless steel bulb. Where would I get that?

[ILLUSN]

i got mine from a vet for doseing my frogs when they had worms, its just a stainless steel tip, like a needle but with a blunt rounded end will put up a pic tomorrow.

[TW]

thanks ILLUSN, I think it is almost time to try this. Usually I only see this fish side on, but last night I caught a rare few minutes view when he was front on. He is razor thin. I see nothing good in his future - only a slow starvation death. So I don't think I have much to lose by trying. You don't think it would work just using the syringe without any end on it at all (just the plastic opening? How many times a day. I searched older posts here & one suggested 3 times a day. Also suggested adding some dissolved pellet food to the dissolved metro - what do you think?

[TW]

Well, I've done it, but I think I waited too long to try it. I think he may have died just before I attempted it. Even so, I decided to do it, as before I have thought a fish dead, only to see it move again. I will see how he is in the morning (tank is covered) but realistically, I expect only sad news :(

[Merrilyn]

Fingers crossed for you TW :(

[ILLUSN]

i dosed just once then a follow up dose 2 days later, my fish recovered, if you dont use a tube the meds will go strait out the gills you need to get the drug down the throat past the gills into the gut.

good luck, i would never recomend someone try this unless your VERY good with a scrynge.

[TW]

I got mine from a vet for doseing my frogs when they had worms, its just a stainless steel tip, like a needle but with a blunt rounded end will put up a pic tomorrow Any chance of seeing that photo, when you have time.

My little guy didn't make it. I'm positive he was newly dead by the time I tried it. I'd like to add this extension thing for the syringe to my fishy medicine cabinet, for absolute emergencies only.

Thanks ILLUSN

[zar]

sorry didn't really read up on this thread.

i didnt use a syringe or anything, my method is a lot more primitive than the one described by ILLSN but it worked :)
i just crumbed small pieces of metro and took the fish out and when he was like gulping for air i'd stuff it in his mouth. then i'd wait a little bit until it goes inside their mouth as they keep gulping they swallow it. then i'd rub the wound with metro and put the fish back into the tank. sounds harsh but it worked..i'm guessing the metro also entered his bloodstream through the wound as there was bloody discharge.
anyway, illsn's way sounds more professional, but this worked too...