Why Fish Lose Color ?

[cityguy]

Why do fishes (Discus) sometimes lose their color and becomes darker or pale ? :roll:

[Merrilyn]

Stress of some kind will cause a change in colour.

Could be stress related to water conditions, bullying, illness or just fright.

It usually only lasts for a few hours if the stress factor is removed.

[Hollowman]

Environmental as well, discus will try to blend in with their surroundings too.
:)

Hollowman

[AHC]

What the experts have said above is most likely situation (fingers crossed). I remember reading in Andrew Sohs book about something that maybe Merrilyn and Hollowman can elaberate on - i wanted to know more.

If the Discus stays pale (total loss of all colour) the book mentioned that its parasite related and there is no chance for survial. When the discus dies in the tank the parasite will attach onto the next closest fish so its best to humanly discard of the Discus before you wipe out your stock.

Q - have you seen this happen before? How often does this parasite hit and is it related to common parasites or is it not common?

[Merrilyn]

Hi Aaron. I read the same thing in Andrew's book.

I can honestly say I've never experienced a fish suffer from a total loss of colour that continued for any length of time, so from my limited experience, it must be fairly uncommon, or at least, not common.

[AHC]

Ok great. Thanks Merrilyn. I have never asked anyone before and it was something that stuck in my mind. Its maybe one of those things that could happen in extreme circumstances.

Thanks again

[Hollowman]

I could ask Andrew about this. I have never seen this though, so would think it is reasonably uncommon. I have though had fish die in a community tank, and when discovered, generally the next morning or after I get home from work, but never had a problem. Big water changes are the key. As soon as a fish dies it starts to break down and release toxins into the water, maybe this is what Andrew was suggesting?? and then followed by sick fish. I have not seen this, but I can see it happening if your w/c regime is not good.

Hollowman :)

[AHC]

Thanks Hollowman,

I remember reading that its better to humanly discard a fish with the above symtoms before the parasite kills it and moves onto another? It will be interesting to find out a little bit more on this. If you are in contact with Andrew then i would appreciate any additional information or clarification around the parasite.

Thanks again.

[Andrew Soh]

I am finally here....thanks to Steve...ha!ha!ha!....but it will be a long story... :wink:

To answer Citiguy's question first:
Why do fishes (Discus) sometimes lose their color and becomes darker or pale ? ...

That is because of the closing and opening of the pigment and can have or not have any relationship with illness. In condition of stress, infection especially endoparasites, camouflage, fright, or unfavorable water condition...and so on, discus reactive with opening and closing of their pigment.


As to the other question by AHC:
I remember reading in Andrew Sohs book about something that maybe Merrilyn and Hollowman can elaberate on - i wanted to know more.

If the Discus stays pale (total loss of all colour) the book mentioned that its parasite related and there is no chance for survial. When the discus dies in the tank the parasite will attach onto the next closest fish so its best to humanly discard of the Discus before you wipe out your stock. ..................

The parasites referred in my book comprise of protozoan and bacteria...including virus.....page 31


It is a well-established knowledge that in most cases of bacteria infection come after other bigger parasites like protozoan and worms inflicting injuries. In simple words, Bigger parasites are primary invaders while the bacteria are secondary.

When a discus is infected or infested seriously (chronic), it literally means that discus is heavily affected and also means that it is stressed.

When such a condition happens, the immune system of that discus should have broken down and making it defenseless. Micro-organisms are very smart and most of them will move to an easy prey. More and more will join in the fun and penetrate that weak fish. Under such a condition, all parasites will proliferate.......and especially the bacteria will attack/invade further into the weaken prey while proliferating furiously and eventually penetrate into most organs ...destroying them if untreated.

Depending on where the bacteria have penetrated.....some may attack and infect the cavity of the stomach, others attack the liver, some the gut....while some move to affect the pigment control point or the thymus gland...the control center of immunity. The infection is not necessarily accurate in their invasion thus not all dying discus must turn white or lost of pigment expression.

But whether dark or white, if you know that it is beyond saving, discard it humanely. The reason is that bacteria needs oxygen...so do protozoan burrowed deep into the flesh. They also receive supply of oxygen comsuming the flesh and blood if I am not wrong. Once a fish dies, oxygen supply is depleted and to survive, they need to find one that can provide them the much needed oxygen....so they (parasites) immediately upon death of the existing host start to dislodge and look for new host.

Therfore to prevent this, we should remove that critically sick fish while they(parasites) are still in and with the existing host which is about to die, remove it gently and immediately MAKE A 100% WATER CHANGE

As for virus, it can be a secondary or a primary invaders. In other words, it doesn't need a primary cause to take advantage and not necessarily opportunistic. Virus can negotiate their own entrance into the fish.....so is different...but will also invade immediately to the nearest fish whether that new one is already infected or not and incubate for 2 weeks before they start replication.

Hope that explains the rationale behind my staement in my book. Anyway, if you still have doubt, please let me know.

Take care,
Andrew

[Hollowman]

That is an excellent explaination Andrew, something for everyone there.

Thanks buddy. :thumb

Hollowman :wink:

[AHC]

That was great thanks Andrew. Very informative, very interesting to read. As Hollowman said, everyone will get something from this as it helps to describe the harsh effects of unkept, unhealthy discus.

[Merrilyn]

Thankyou Andrew. As usual a very interesting and informative reply. :P

[Andrew Soh]

You discus lovers are welcome...including Merrilyn :D

Sorry for the unchecked grammer and typo errors. Didn't check through before submitting.....and as you know....I am very long-winded....ha!ha!ha!

I am just trying to disseminate what I know.

Anyway, allowing the dying fish to die inside a tank full of other fishes whether healthy or not isn't a good practice...and discarding the dying discus...especially if it is your favourite is a real pain too.

Anyway, if you want to minimize any future health problem, the best option is to discard while it is dying or critically ill and beyond recuperation.

If you are sentimental about the whole issue, then remove the sick into a clinical tank by itself and pray hard for its recovery. And once it dies off, discard and sterilize(disinfect) all equipments used on that discus and the clinical tank(that is if have spare tank).

Just a note. Many people may doubt my reasoning and may make claim that even a discus (dead for hours) will still harbour bacteria ....so the talk about the bacteria immediate search for new host after the discus has died may be overly exaggerated and cannot stand.

This is not true as the normal bacteria that are with living animal are aerobic...needing oxygen.

About half an hour after death, all these aerobes either reinfest a new host or move into the water, and a new group of anaerobes(organisms mainly bacteria) will take over....that don't need much or totally don't require oxygen. These are the bacteria that eat up the dead body/tissue....resulting in decomposition.

So in pathology, for accurate diagnosis, bacteria samples can and must be taken from a dead fish no longer than half hour after death. Best is when it is still having its last breath. :wink:

Take care......bear with me....always long-winded...ha!ha!ha!

Andrew :wink:

[Merrilyn]

Andrew we love your long winded explanations. We learn so much from them.

And please, don't ever worry about spelling or punctuation. This is a fish forum, not a spelling class, so feel free to type away :wink: :lol:

[Andrew Soh]

Ha! Ha! Ha!.....thanks Merrilyn :lol: :lol: :lol:

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[cityguy]

Ur great, excellent write up..

[AHC]

:D :cheers

[Matt15]

Fantastic read.... thx for the post Andrew :D

[Andrew Soh]

:cheers :thumb

[Hollowman]

Long winded Andrew......never lol :lol:

What counts the most mate, is that we understand what you say. Perhaps you need to write a book about discus one day....... :wink:

Hollowman

[Andrew Soh]

Oh my :shock: ...Steve,


Perhaps you need to write a book about discus one day.......

...You mean you don't know I wrote a discus book :roll:

I am in fact writing a second discus book now... :wink:

....and that is my third venture into book-writing.

Take care,
Andrew

[Hollowman]

:lol: :roll: :lol:

The Naked Truth has pride of place on my shelf, looking forward to volume 2. :wink:

Steve

[samir]

He should call it Naked Truth II - Revenge of the Cobalts. :P :lol: :lol: :lol:
but he wont take my suggestion. Andrew when is the book out ?

[Merrilyn]

:lol: :roll: :lol:

The Naked Truth has pride of place on my shelf

On mine too Steve :wink:

Andrew, that's so exciting. What will you call this one, and when is it due to hit the shops?

[Andrew Soh]

Hello,

I am glad Steve has it in his shelf.......but I remembered you asking me to write one....hmmm.... :roll:

Good title...Samir...ha!ha!ha!...but what is wrong with the blues ...the cobalt....to have a title like that :?: :shock: ....is it because it loses out to Blue diamond in popularity??? :oops:


Merrilyn, thanks...it should be ready by end of September 2008...hopefully...I am changing printer and have to find a good one to prevent the same embarassment as the first book, Discus, the Naked Truth.

As to title....shiiiii.....not telling till it is ready...ya?

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[cityguy]

How do I get a copy of the first book ? 'Discus, The Naked Truth' ..

[Andrew Soh]

You are from India....so you can contact me directly.

JUst give me a PM.

Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Probably should start a new thread, but it relates to all Andrew has mentioned above. Of my 3 small heckels, bought earlier this year, one of them always had the tendency to go "dark". So I watched this & only sometimes he appeared the normal colour. As he was the smallest, I thought the change to dark colour was probably due to stress & thought he was probably ok. I've noticed he now is mostly remaining dark & rarely comes out of his hiding place behind the filter. I've sat & watched for lengthy periods after putting food in the tank - he's not eating. There are no white jelly poos.

I now see he is not growing, skinny & dark. He sometimes chases the other discus out of his hidey hole - but doesn't leave the area.

The tank already went through the complete Big L & Prazi worming treatment when I first got them. The others all eat like pigs. Tank is bare bottom & gets 10% water change daily.

I decided to repeat the worming treatment and tank already given Big L. Due for Prazi tonight. Not really sure if this is the best plan.

Reluctant to put meds in the tank, other than the worming stuff. Read here a couple of times lately how wilds treated with meds often go off their food.

Going by Andrew's advice, I should remove him & I guess I should. As they are already in the QT, my only option for him is either a small 10L glass tank, or a plastic storage bin I could use. Moving him will probably only stress him more & worsen his condition - but I guess I should do it, for the sake of the other residents.

Was wondering what anyone else thought.

[Andrew Soh]

Hello TW,

Maybe it is not so chronic yet......so posting a picture will make diagnosis easy.

If not, according to your input, it is not time to discard it yet as he is still fighting against intruders wandered into his territory.....so there may still be hope.

Check whether your tank is placed in such a way that a shadow is casted onto that area where this fellow hides. It could be a santuary you have created for him.

So, starve the fishes for a day and in the evening, switch off the light and leave a small light a a distance. Hide yourself from full view of the tank and throw two pieces of food into the tank into two far away corners and see how that heckel reacts.

Keep us up-dated.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[AHC]

Good luck TW.

[TW]

Thank you so much Andrew - I was hoping you would reply. I will try this tonight.
it is not time to discard it yet as he is still fighting against intruders wandered into his territory.....so there may still be hope Yes that's what I thought & was why I mentioned the territory issue. But even so, things would have to be drastic before I discard. I was only thinking of this stage of removing him to alternative tank - although as mentioned, I have nothing totally ideal spare.

PS, I have your book & enjoyed it very much.


AHC, thanks for good wishes.

[Andrew Soh]

Separating it into a tank all alone is not a good option.

It will further fuel his wild instinct of going hunger-strike and may lead to death.

So, it is a "No... No" . Just try it out tonight and let us know your experment.

Glad you enjoy my first book

Thanks and take,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Did the 24hr starvation & fed the tank last night. He didn't come out to eat. I didn't see him chase anyone out of his space anymore, either. Failing anything else suggested, I'll do stage 2 of worming tonight (prazi).

[AHC]

Maybe try Big L again too?

[TW]

Thanks Aaron. I did the Big L last week, so now there 2 weeks for Prazi. After that another of Big L. I can't think what else to do now.

[AHC]

God, it seems really bad. Its sad hey. He might have an infection. His immune might have been shot when the bacteria took over.

[Andrew Soh]

TW,

Maybe show a picture of that guy. Can't suggest much from my imagination.

Andrew

[TW]

Sorry, been unwell myself, so unable to get back to this. Thanks to AHC & Andrew for continued support.

Here are some pictures - as usual, my pictures aren't good. Included quite a few, in case one of them pick up something for Andrew's expert eye.

These 1st 2 picture show the original hiding place. All are hiding there, as I was doing a water change. Whenever wc is underway, they show their displeasure by gathering here. Also light had not long been on. He is the one with the clamped fins.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2139.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2138.jpg

Changed the tank & added 2 tall fake plants. This has now become the favourite place for all to hang out. Still not seen him eat, but due to sickness have not been able to observe tank. But is this a good sign? Here are several pictures of him out & about at the front of the tank last night. Again - the light had only just gone on, so colour on any of them is not great. This was just after water change. He is always the main subject of the pic (that is, if you ignore the camera hogging Rose Red)
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2157.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2158.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2159.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2160.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2161.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2162.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_2163.jpg

He always has clamped fins, which i think cannot be a great sign. For some reason, whenever I am able to get a shot of him, he is less dark than at other times. He often is darker than he is in these pics.

Do these pictures show anything. Do his eye buldge out of a skinny body - or do I imagine that.

In this thread http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16530&highlight=
I had a discus that turned black and gasping for air. Its what you call the Black Disease. I was advised by Barry at B&C Acquarium to apply SuperCin to the water and the temp had to be put up to 30-32 degree C. I tried this medication and the fish got well completely. Try that! BTW the medication is only available from Barry. Cheers Grace (hope it gets well)

I think I have this stuff (same source) but never used it. Relectuant to do so for the wilds. What do you think? Also, the Prazi only went in last night.

[Andrew Soh]

Hey TW,

I think your heckel really need deworming and a deflagelating. You can use prazi..I think and also metronidazole. Check with your veterinary for the medications.

After the treatment for about 8 days, add B complex vitamin@ 120mg per 100 litres of water (sugar-free) together with the other drugs and soak for 4 days. .....totally 12 days med and 4 days B-complex.

Hope to get his appetite back.....we will see.

Keep us up-dated. The method is no guarantee...aswuld discus are more stubborn. Another method is to soak live artemia in a solution of B-complex (120mg to 100ml of water for 5 minutes and then introduce everything into tank. Being live, that wild might try the food.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Hi Andrew

Thanks for quick response. I am in the midst of deworming now. Happy to use Levamisole & prazi in the main tank, as the wilds don't seem to have a bad reaction to this. Read many times recently on this forum, after treating wilds with metro - they won't eat. Merrilyn had recent experience with this I believe with her Wild Royal blue. Therefore, I am reluctant to put metro in this tank - as the other discus there are currently all eating well & I do not want to risk them.

If you think Metro is best - then I think it's time to move him to a separate medical tank.

Should I continue with the Levamisole & Prazi treatment in tank (this is a four week process - but already completed week 1). Or should I move straight to the metro treatment & i will remove him, if that's the case.

What do you suggest might be best?

By vitamin B-Complex treatment, do I just go to normal human health store & buy this. Not sure i have seen B-Complex as a specialised product for fish.

Yes, i know nothing is guaranteed here. We all just try our best to help our poor sick friends to regain their health.

Thanks once more.

[TW]

Sorry, should have asked this in earlier post. In case you recommend I defintely need go down the metro route, I will need to see a vet for a prescription.

What is the latest dosage recommendations for metro? Are the sticky's here up to date. But even so, would not mind hearing what your recommendations are for dosage Andrew, given your expertise as successful discus breeder & book author.

[TW]

Andrew - pls also see another response I put on the previous page (in case you only see this one). Thanks for your patience with an anxious discus mum

[Andrew Soh]

Yes, you can terminate the rest of the medication and treat with metronidazole or you can do all together. No harm as they are acting on different spectrums....and no interaction.

Yes, B-complex for human of course. For me, I concoct my own. So go to the pharm. to get it....but no sugar or glucose added please. You might cloud your tank and accidentally kill your discus.

Andrew :wink:

[Andrew Soh]

Sorry,

Missed two of your three posts.

Dose of metronidazole : 1.5gm per 100 litres of water

Application : Before you pour into the tank, put it into a plastic bag and add some lukewarm water of 40C to 50C.

Shake well and vigorously to dissolve for one minute

After that, pour into the tank. It would be good to, at the same time, add 30gm of Magnesium Sulfate.

(There are others who would advise redose every eight hours. They have their reasons....maybe breaking down by eight hours as claimed by some medical literatures)

But what I do is make water change every four days and redose to full strength.

The whole treatment ends in 12 days.

During the treatment, B-complex may be given as suggested.

I hope that helps,

Andrew

[TW]

Thanks Andrew, would you suggest I treat the whole tank (given no others are sick), or should I isolate him & treat him separately?

[Andrew Soh]

I would suggest treating the whole tank of discus.

And if you are doing that, add 1.5gm to 100gm of feed and feed all the discus.

Many discus may try but may also refuse to eat it. Anyway, add also B-complex in water and in feed (120mg to 100gm).

This addition of B-complex both in water and in feed will induce hunger and finally, even if the feed is medicated, they will consume some...which is our objective.

Adding B-complex is very important as discus under medronidazole treatment tend to eat less and B.C. induce appetite.


Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

I find I have 2 x 200mg metro tablets left (not enough, will need more). I don't have B-Complex, so will hold off starting treatment till I get some tomorrow.

Thanks for the dosing info.

Dose of metronidazole : 1.5gm per 100 litres of water My tablets say they are each 200mg. How do the "mg" measurements of my tablets compare with "gm" measurements in your dosage rate. When I go to my vet I have to be very clear. If she thinks I don't know what I'm asking for, I'm unlikey to get the metro. Sadly, it's not easy here to convince a vet to prescribe for fish.


It would be good to, at the same time, add 30gm of Magnesium Sulfate Is this 30gm per 100L. This is Epsom Salt - right?

I am very lucky to have you giving me this advice. So sorry to be a pest.

[ivo]

Hi Andrew, i think everyone here appreciates very much that you spend the time to explain and to provide such great length of assistance. Eventhough i don't have the same problem as TW does but it is definitely worthwhile to learn from what you wrote. Could i please ask you what would cause a discus to constantly clamp it's fins given if the discus itself is healthy, eating, swimming (not hiding) etc.? Has it got anything to do with "pecking order" in the tank? Thank you.

[Andrew Soh]

oh yes, I forgot TW that hobbyists get their medication fromVet.

Anyway, it is o.k. to use 1.6gm which is translated to 200mg x 8 pieces or 250mg x 6 pieces or 400mg x 4 pieces .....to...100litres of water.

Hi Ivo,

There are many reasons for clamping the fins....

if you are referring to the dorsal and the anal fins and not the caudal fin, generally if....

a) If all of them close their fins after water-change, it could be the water chemistry...like chlorine.

b) If most of them close the two fins.....more than 50% of the population, it is because of ammonia level or toxicity in the water. This may be accompanied by darkening of body...due to stress.

c) If a few of them always close their two fins....especially including the tail, they could be parasite irritation, especially if they rub against object.
THe reason why they can still eat, swim and spawn is because tthe problem is not chronic yet and the parasite count ihas not reach lethal proportion.

d) One or two discus always occasional turn dull and dim and then light again and then dim and the two fins close....this is due to some internal problem (endo parasite problem related to internal organ....like kidney or liver). Before they reach chronic or critical stage, they can still ingest food and display spawning interest.

Hope that helps,

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Thanks once again.

Do I feed as normal during the treatment? Perhaps at reduced level, to reduce the need to water change before it is time to redose the tank.

The parasite comment you gave Ivo is interesting. This same fish of mine always did clamp his fins too. Not the others - just him.

[Andrew Soh]

Do I feed as normal during the treatment? Perhaps at reduced level, to reduce the need to water change before it is time to redose the tank.

YES!!!


This same fish of mine always did clamp his fins too. Not the others - just him.

So yours is the (d).....and needed treatment for internal parasites.

Take care, mate,

Andrew :wink:

[TW]

So yours is the (d).....and needed treatment for internal parasites. Will metro take care of this at at same time as the deworming and deflagelating.

[Andrew Soh]

Metronidazole is for de-flagellating......because spiro is a flagellate and not a worm. When you say deworm, we mean to kill or eliminate worm and roundworms and tapeworms are worms.

Therefore they are two different groups of organisms that may be living in the gut. Roundworms and tapeworms are naturally non-harmful to fishes if in moderate quantity and they multiple very much slower than flagellates. They just stay in the gut eating waste and the more harnful stage is when they mutiple too much and congest the intestine causing constipation...and then toxin released from rot food and bacteria growth resulting in more toxin release.

For flagellates (spiro and so on), they are quite oppotunistic and attack when there is a chance and some may even stay in the lateral lines while other smaller species may run into the blood stream and attack brain and other organs.....causing what is commonly known as 'Sleeping disease'.

Hope that explains the need for metronidazole.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Ok, thanks just checking that I am doing all that is required & not missing anything. I have the B complex. The absence of sugar or glucose may be an issue. There is none added, but pharmacist called manufacturer to check. There is apparently a very small amount of carbohydrate in each tablet tablet (frucrose). Seems I can't get a B Complex without it. Is it a problem?

[Andrew Soh]

Sorry,

forgot to add:

Metronidazole doesn't eliminate worms. It is effective against most flagellates and a few bacteria.

Therefore it is an effective anti-flagellates and an antibiotic. But as antibiotic, its spectrum is limited.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[Andrew Soh]

Glucose encourage/ support bacteria proliferation. So don't use the syrup type which has sugar or glucose added to make delivery easy.

BUy those in tablet form...should have no sugar, my friend. Don't joke me..... :?

Andrew :wink:

[Andrew Soh]

You see the small orange pill.....thats B-complex. Defintely no sugar....simple as that. Please don't tease me.... :x

It is not a restricted drug and can easily get it from your family doctor.

Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Yes it is tablet (Blackmores Balanced B Complex). Pharmacist tell me it has minute traces of fructose in it.

[Andrew Soh]

Try finding from other source.

If still cannot, ask your family doctor......I am very sure there is B-complex without all the fruit sugar like fructose or glucose or whatever tose..... :wink:

Andrew

[TW]

Well, I have the meds. It's up to the fish now

Thanks Andrew

[Andrew Soh]

That's great, TW....hope everything is fine.

By the way, B-complex can be given as a long-term supplement. :idea: and is beneficial.

Take care and let us know the result.

Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Sorry, the last thing I'm not sure of is the epsom salt. Is it Is this 30gm per 100L? Or is there a dose by no. of metric teaspoons per certain no. of litres. This is for a semi permanent bath where the epsom salt will be in the tank for the 12 days of treatment - not for a short term bath.

[Andrew Soh]

Yes, long-term bath of 30gm epsom salt per 100 litres of water.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

Take care and let us know the result. I will. Fingers & toes are crossed. Thanks for your patience & kind advice.

[Andrew Soh]

You mean you can cross your toes????
:oops:
Ha!ha!ha!

Andrew :wink:

[TW]

You mean you can cross your toes???? :oops: Ha!ha!ha!

Haha, yes I can cross my toes, at least some of them.

Andrew, I'm having trouble sourcing B Complex without any trace of sugar. Tried the vet, my GP & chemist – all to no avail. Waiting still for a response from a naturopath – so that might be a chance. In the meantime, I have found a product specifically for the aquarium water column (thanks cityguy) but I can’t get it until next month.

I’ve also found a product called Tropic Marin Immuvit which contains “essential B vitamins”. It’s intended to be used in the food, not put in the water column – but I’m getting desperate.

The published contents of Tropic Marin Immuvit are Spirulina, brewer's yeast, extracted and non-extracted. Brewer’s yeast doesn’t sound like something I should put in the water column though :?:

Any opinion if I could use this in the water column, while I wait on the other product ????

The next best thing I have is B Complex from Blackmores – but manufacturer said, even though it is not a listed ingredient on the bottle, there are minute traces of fructose.

In the meantime, colour is much better and fins are held erectly. I thought I saw him eat once – but now I’m not so sure it was the right one. He didn’t eat last night & is back to his usual hiding place – though he comes out more than before.

[Andrew Soh]

O.K. Girl-Watcher.......sorry it should be Tankwatcher...ha!ha!ha!

You are great...I could only put one toe on top of the big toe....not cross... :oops:

Well, you can use those B complex with trace of fructose. The only problem may be bacteria bloom...because they like glucose.

SO if yours is under a recycle system, then it should be o.k....because the glucose will be consumed by the nutrifying bacteria.

If yours is a clinical tank with nothing inside and no bio-media, then when you are using the b-complex with sugar, you need to tie some cotton or filter media on the air-stone so that it will help to filter off the bacteria...reducing the cloudiness and preventing the discus from getting choked.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[TW]

It has eheim pro 2224 filter, with eheim media.

I'll put the B complex in when I get home from work.

Thanks Andrew

[Andrew Soh]

You are welcome, TW

AS long as bio-filtration is used, it is o.k.

Take care,
Andrerw

[TW]

Thanks for all your help Andrew. Unfortunately, my little guy didn't make it. His colour did come back to normal & his fins became erect due to the metro treatment. But, he never did eat. He starved to death & was razor thin. The others left in the tank still appear healthy & eat well, so I have my fingers crossed he didn't leave anything behind to hurt his tank mates.

How long a period of time should now pass before I consider moving the survivors out of QT & into the main display tank?

Thanks once again

[Andrew Soh]

TW,

Sorry you lost one and I cannot help.... :cry:

I feel 3 weeks from the death should be o.k to put them to the main tank.

Take care and when you get new discus, choose well. :wink:

Take care,
Andrew

[TW]

thanks once again