Hex and somthing else :(

[vyberman]

Hi
My problems started a couple of weeks back when i noticed a couple of my cardinals had dropsy.
I acted fast and removed the entire shoal into a hospital to keep the discus safe. I treated both tanks with interpet internal bacteria treament.
Lost a couple of the cardinals but the rest are all fine now.

Since then of my discus has picked up hex by the look of it, i assume the stress of my fishing the cardinals out may have bought it on. There were large white jelly strings of poo hanging from him. So, as soon as the interpet treatment was done, huge water change, then i treated the tank with octozin (living in the uk i cant get metro easily)
The poo started to look a little more healthy, but the fish itself isnt looking so hot.

There wernt any actual holes in his head, but there was a small mark above his eye/forehead. This mark has turned into a whiteish patch, kinda like fungus, but i dont think thats what it is.
Also I have started to notice under his chin where the gills form that arrowhead shape, there are now some white growths (not whitespot).

I am assuming that these are some kind of fluke/parasite? If i can get a decent photo i will add it to the post.

I am halfway through the octozin treatment, and have noticed the poo is a little more white and jellylike. So the hex must be still there.

So the question is what to do next? I was considering taking him out for a PP bath, and then returning him to the main tank (which still has octozin in it). But i have dismissed that as i am worried that returning him to the octozin may be harmful after the PP bath.

So far i have managed to establish that the biggest cause of fish mortality in my tanks has been down to late/incorrect diagnosis. So if some of you knowledgable folk could point me in the right direction then i can get on with treating him asap.

Gaz

[vyberman]

This is a picture of him just before i added the octozin. apart from the poo he is otherwise healthy. Still not managed to get a decent shot of the new marks on him though.
I have also observed some other symptoms. Occasionally he lists over at around 45 degrees and shimy's his fins. And now he is off his food altogether. Which also make me think flukes.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1743

[vyberman]

Ive managed to get a decent shot of the marks on his head. here they are.

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1744

[vyberman]

Anyone?

[ILLUSN]

Sorry mate cant see the pics. what are your water parameters, if your fish has been in a tank with fish that have or have had dropsy you're in trouble.

[vyberman]

ah, i have managed to get the pics to show :)

Just taken measurements.

Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = between 0-0.5 on the colour card.

I'm stuggling to get an accurate measurement on the ammonia as im colour blind and always struggle with that test.
But if what i just read is correct then im both shocked and worried by it. 1ppm
I wouldnt expect to see any ammonia in there as my filters are very very mature.

I am also shocked by the PH result which is telling me 7.

The reason i am shocked by both of the last results is because of the water chemestry i usually use.
I do 2-3, 30% water changes every week.
I use pure RO water to which i add waterlife 6.5 buffer and API electro-right. I also use Fluval lab series nitrate remover, which i take out once a week and soak in salt to recharge it.

So a PH of 7 and any ammonia at all just dont make any sense to me. Unless of course the octozin has any effect on these results?
I hope so, otherwise the only explanation i can think of is that i have killed my filter? :(

I will wash my test tubes and try again in a bit.

As far as the rest of the tank is concerned it all "appears" to be healthy.
I have 5 chain loaches, which are still being loachy
2 bristlenoses, which are hard as nails anyway.
The remaining cardinals are all looking chipper.
and the other discus is looking better than i have ever seen him look. (i dont keep these two with any other as they are a pair of bullies)

I have a pair of blue rams in there, the female of which has looked healthier, but i have put that down to constant pestering from her mate and once i clear the discus probem im going to add another female to spread the love and give her a break.

So, i await your advice.

[vyberman]

Well i think the assumption that i had killed my filter was correct :(
In order to get round my colour blindness i took a sample from my big tank which i know to be healthy and compared it to a sample from the problem tank. No amonia in the healthy one.

So, have done a huge WC and taken half the porous chips from the big tank and put them in the small one to reseed it. I have also added a load of nutrafin cycle and a double dose of stress coat.
The chips i have taken out of the small tank have been microwaved to kill any nasties in them, i am going to run an air stone trough them in a bucket for 24 hrs to clean them before i put them into the big tank.

PH is now 6.8
Amonia looks like its about 0.25
I am hoping that there is now enough mature chips in there to drop that down to 0 by the morning.

I'll have to let you know how the fish look in the morning.
I dont know how i managed to get into a poor water situation, i work really hard to stay on top of it. It must have been the change from the interpet treatment to the octozin. Not feeling to pleased with myself about it :(

[ILLUSN]

no problem, get your ammonia down to to 0, daily changes of as close to 100% as you can. if ypou can keep the water good they'll get better on their own.

[vyberman]

OK.
After a few water changes, and some careful media swapping.
I have managed to get the ammonia out of the tank.

This mornings tests showed
PH = 6.5
Ammonia and nitrite = 0
Nitrates = less than 5pmm
Temp 28

The shimmying and listing has stopped. But the marks on his head and general condition are bothering me.
For a couple of days it looked like it was kind of crusted over. Now it looks more raw and exposed. This one is also not eating now, which he was before i ran the octozin.
I was checking thier poo last night and the other one, although eating really well, has now started doing white jelly poo's (thick ones)
The one that isnt eating also passed a long jelly last night, but ot looked more like an empty sausage skin. Obviously since he isnt eating i guess?

I am also worried that the open mark on his head will become infected if i just trust it to clean wtaer on its own.

So, do i run another octozin treatment? This worries me as i dont want to knock the filter out again.
Or do i salt the tank while his head heals a little, then consider a treatment when the filter is more robust?

There are some pic's of his head at different stages below.

Close up just before octozin and filter probs.
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1746

this is around the end of the octozin treatment
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1747

This is around day 5/6. when i discoverd the filter probs. it was a little more crusty here, and looking a load bigger.
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1748


And a couple from today (day 8ish)
IM not sure if it looks better or worse here. What do you suggest?
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1749
http://www.discusforums.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=1750