Breeder Tank Feeding

[Gone Fishing]

Hi All,
Please tell me if I'm on track with breeding.
First I do a daily water change (about 30%) to my 2ft tank maintaining a 30cm water height when I'm finished.
I use a large sponge filter with white foam around the sponge and black parts of the heater(not the heater coils).
I feed small amounts of lady reds beef heart mix in the morning and at night.

Before, I fed them right up to they became wrigglers. Now, I stop feeding them as soon as they lay their eggs. So Andrew Soh says to do

Maintain tank temp. 27~28`C
PH:6.8
no nitrite
less then 5ppm Nitrate
but I still can't get 0 ammonia. It's around .25ppm. WHY is this?

I know I cycled my tank to start with and it went through the motions of high ammonia then raised nitrite then lower ammonia then lower nitrite. It took about a month and a half to do this and only when I got zero of both ammonia and nitrite did I put both fish back and they spawn just fine.

I don't know what changed to introduce the ammonia.

No eating of eggs, they look happy and healthy and spawn once a week.

I did get my first wrigglers but they didn't unattach themselves

If it was initially cycled with a full tank and then dropped 13cm to a 30cm level could this be the cause?
I'm using at least one day old aged water with fishtamin, mineral salts, water dechlorinater and acid buffer.

I did about (2) 75% water changes /day in two days to combat this , as I was told, but this didn't change anything.

Should I do larger water changes, more often, over a longer period or what?

Please Help

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[ILLUSN]

i change about 150% of the water a day to keep down ammonia, i drain(slowly) till the parents are just covered (while upright) and fill to the top(VERY SLOWLY) then drain again then refill to the desired height.

to get the fry to attach i drop the water level even lower to about 3cm above the height of the tallest fish and add salt, dont be stingy, in my 2x1.5x1.5 (1/3 full) I'd add 1 tablespoon.

the fry always attach as the parents slime coat thickens up.

[boydie]

whay type of salt

[Gone Fishing]

Hi ILLUSN,
Thanks for your help AGAIN!!
I did what you said and I also used a 16mm ID clear tube to siphon out into a 20ltr bucket this time instead of wasting more water using my gravel vac. setup.
For the first time I think they produced slime. It looked like bubbles to start with but I haven't had this before.
I thought it's when they turn a rich deep colour on both male & female.

Ok,...lets say they hatched, after 60hrs or so, and again after 60hrs they become free swimming wrigglers.

I assume as soon as they attach to the parents I can fill up the tank (slowly, of course) and leave it full.

What kind of water changes should I perform now?

And by the way... will there ever be a time when I can just do slight water changes and not have to worry about ammonia. I mean what's the point of the sponge filter. Isn't that suppose to keep ammonia and nitrite at bay without doing super water changes every day?

A penny for your thoughts?

P.S. The salt I use is a De-Ioniser & Electrolyte type called "Start Right B" from Auburn Aquarium

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[ILLUSN]

leave the tank with only minimum water for 1 week after free swimming, that way any lost fry can find the parents.

there is no way any little sponge filter will be able to handel the ammonia of 2 adults and a few hundred fry in a small volume of water , the sponge filter will just tie you over between changes.

once you have removed the fry from the parents and its just the parents in the tank you can cut back, as long as there are fry in there, the only way to keep the ammonia down is to dilute it out.

[Hollowman]

I would make sure that any uneaten food is removed after 1 hour max. It can just sit there and rot all day if you let it. Also make sure that you are wiping down the sides of the tank to remove the 'slimey' residue caused by the parents producing more milk for the kids.
Even at the stage you are at, I use a rubber squeegy, (for cleaning windows) for the wipe down inside the tank, some use kitchen towel (paper), then allow to settle and vacuum out the crud. I generally do a 50% water change every day after feeding th parents, I would do more, but I have to work!!
I must admit, I have never heard of adding salt to get the parents to produce more milk at this time, bit over the top imo, long term it might lead to more problems, not sure how it would affect the young fry? The fry will attach just by lowering the water as said, no need for anything else.
Why do you use all the chemicals to adjust your water? what is the ph of your aged water? are you using RO or HMA ? what is the TDS of your tap water?

Hollowman

[Gone Fishing]

Hi Hollowman,
The chemicals I listed are not anything special they are just a blend of mineral salts that are needed (so I have been told) and they don't hurt adding to the breeder tank so I've been told.
So, can anyone tell me the pro's and con's of adding these salts or any type of salts to the breeder tank.
I did have some issues before when the last time, which was their first time, I had wrigglers they found it hard to leave the breeding post and when I helped them leave, by using water in a syringe, the parents brought them back and spat them back on, where they stayed.
Has this got anything to do with the salt? I don't know can anyone tell me?

As for RO, HMA or TDS, I don't like it when people abbreviate too much. Not a lot of begginers (like me!) no what your on about.
Yes I figure RO is reverse osmosis and no I just use day old aged town water, which is 7.0ph (not aged-never checked it aged before), 2 hardness. As for HMA...haven't the fogiest and TDS - Total Disolved Solids, I found out on this forum. Only problem is I don't know what is "Total Disolved Solids"

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[ILLUSN]

i use super soft sydney tap water, ph'd with HCl the kh is un measurable, gh around 60ppm, ph is 4.9-5.1, tds is also hard to measure.

water is decholrinated with seachem safe/prime and filtered through carbon and zeolite.

a halk dose of Aussie geo mineral is also added twice a week.

[Hollowman]

Oh ok, Illusn, I see why you remineralise now. Where I am the water is like liquid concrete, measuring at 700+ microsiemens or 350 tds. I use a mix of ro and HMA (heavy metal axe) water to make a tds of around 100-120, ph 6.6 - 6.8
There is a big difference in our water yes? Is this common all over Austrailia?

[Gone Fishing]

Oh ok, Illusn, I see why you remineralise now. Where I am the water is like liquid concrete, measuring at 700+ microsiemens or 350 tds. I use a mix of ro and HMA (heavy metal axe) water to make a tds of around 100-120, ph 6.6 - 6.8
There is a big difference in our water yes? Is this common all over Austrailia?and where are you Hollowman?

[Hollowman]

Sorry Jason, I am in the UK. The water hardness changes from solid to soft here.

[Gone Fishing]

Hi Fish Lovers,
Ok if good daily water changes(as ILLUSN suggests) keeps down ammonia, what do you do when you are supposed to not do any water changes from just before the eggs hatch till they become free swimming?
I don't feed them from when they lay the eggs either, but I still get this fluffy stuff forming and the ammonia is .75ppm. what is an acceptable level?
Is that normal and unavoidable during this period or what?

Even Andrew Soh says; "The next water-change needed will be on the second or third day after free swimming".

So, from that I gather even when they are free swimming you don't do any water-changes for 2~3 days after the first instant they free swim. Is this correct?


Many Kind Fishy Regards
Jason

[ILLUSN]

Hi jason, mine get a change every day, eggs wriggler, free swimmers, do it gentky, match the water perfectly and they wont even notice.

[Gone Fishing]

oky doky!

[Gone Fishing]

Hi All,
Why do my discus have no slime for their fry?
They had it once for a couple of nights soon after they laid their eggs.
Tonight or tomorrow they should be free swimming.
PH: now is 6.8 and I lowered it to get reading next time of 6.0.
Is that the way to go?
I was hoping to not bother with adjusting the ph at all as the aged water was, by its' self, 6.8.

Many Kind Fishy Regards
Jason

[ILLUSN]

keep brinign it down as i said i get more slime with a ph in the 5's, if not give the salt a go, it wont do the fish any harm.

[Gone Fishing]

Hi All,
Success!!!

My fry are free swimming and swarming around the mum.
The fry seem happy and healthy enough. They are generally staying with the mum, but occasionally swim way off but joyfully enough they speedily swim back to mum.
I thought I would see more obvious signs of slime food for the fry, but just as before, the mum is a deep blue colour(blue diamond) and the dad is a deep colour too.
Is this a sign of slime or should you be able to see it?

They weren't letting go after 2.5days so I increased the temp. from 27.5'c to 30.5'c. I don't know if that is why they moved to the next stage of free swimming.
I added extra salt and am trying to lower the PH to at least 6.0.

Many Kindly Fishy Regards
Jason

[Hollowman]

Please DO NOT add any more salt, it is not necessary at all. Just good clean water is enough right now.

The reason that the parents are dark right now is too attract the fry, they like dark objects. My pairs would change colour in a flash when they either wanted to have the fry with them or not, so do not worry if they often change colour right now.
Just make sure you wipe down the sides of the tank when you do a w/c if you dont you might end up with unwanted bacterial build up, and possible deaths as a result.

Note:
Salt is a med, and should be used as one, not to irritate the fish into producing more slime. Believe me, you pick up any discus and it is slimey. You might not be able to see it, but the fry can, and eat it.
Salt is used to rid discus of external parasites, used as a dip in most cases, not a long term treatment.


Sorry Illusn, I just do not agree with the salt thing at all.

Hollowman