A few beginners questions

[byrnsy]

have been breeding africans for a while now and have a 3ft tank with 4 peppermint bristlenose catfish in there and have decided to enter the discus world :D

Have been brushing up on information here on this site and others but there are still a couple of questions that i would like answered.

1. I am buying a proven breeding pair of the Snakeskin Varient, with the option of taking some of thier fry. Should i look at buying the fry aswell or just stick with the Adults?

2. I know that usuing crushed coral etc etc for african tanks can buffer the pH to 8.0. Is there anything thing in the way of substrate that can buffer it to the desirable level for discus? I believe driftwood does lower pH and i have about 4 or 5 large pieces in the tank already for the catfish with 3 plants and sand.

3. Breeding Cones, do the discus use the sides of these to attach thier eggs onto? Are there other places within a tank they might use when a breeding cone isnt available?

4. Do i need lighting for the discus tank? If so how long for?

5. 2x feedings daily of bloodworm, brine shrimp and some form of dry pellet food be good for these Discus

Would be very greatful for someone to help me with answering these questions. Thanks for your time.

Mick :)

[Mr Discus]

Hi Mick, welcome to the wonderful world of Discus!

I will answer your questions as best I can, IMO of course...

1. I would just buy the adults. Get used to keeping fully grown discus before attemting to raise young.

2. Driftwood does and can drop the pH but very little. Some members use peat in their filters, it does stain the water a little but can help in dropping the pH, as can using rain water, or RO water. Other members use different methods and they may be able to shed better light on it than I can.

3.Discus do like to lay their eggs on a flat smooth surface like breeding cones, but if you don't have any they will find a suitable spot to lay eggs in the tank if they are happy and healthy.

4. Were you going to run a tank with no lights? How will you see the beautiful colours of discus without lighting? LOL! 10 hours a day is fine.

5. That diet is pretty well exactly what I feed my discus, and they are healthy, look awesome and are very happy. It is a well rounded diet for those of us that want to use simple food readily available.

Hope that helps!

[byrnsy]

thanks for your help Mr Discus, you say RO water, what does RO mean?

Mick

[Merrilyn]

Welcome to the forum byrnsy :P

Mr Discus has given you some pretty good advice there. RO means Reverse Osmosis. A process where normal tap water is passed through a membrane under very high pressure, and the resulting water contains no salts or minerals of any kind. You then mix this 'pure' water with some of your tap water to give you the desired softness.

The only other thing I would point out, is that a proven breeding pair that have been breeding for someone else, may not necessarily breed for you.

Sometimes the change of tanks, the stress of the move or the difference in the food or water, is enough to put them off breeding.

You may find they breed immediately, but it is something you do need to know.

If you're serious about breeding discus, you need to use a dedicated bare bottom breeding tank with no other fish in there.

[byrnsy]

Thanks also Merrilyn :D Are there any readily available devices that i can use for RO water? May move on my colony of Afra's then to give the discus a tank of their own with a bare bottom at a later stage too

Thanks
Mick

[Merrilyn]

A lot of aquarium shops will be able to get a RO unit for you, if you want to spend a few hundred dollars, but unless your tap water is very, very hard, I wouldn't bother.

I see you are in Morwell. What's your tap water like there, the pH, KH and GH ? If you have to buffer it up for your cichlids, it just may be soft enough for your discus without any alteration.

[byrnsy]

ah yeah might give the ro unit a miss for the moment then :lol: i emailed gippsland water to give me the parameters of the tap water but from what the LFS's say the pH is around 7.0 here, as far as KH and GH is concerned im not 100%, have tested both of these but have also asked gipps water to email me back with some more accurate numbers. Will be testing the tap water again tomorrow. I know a breeder in Drouin says their tap water is perfect for Discus and he just adds a chlorine breaker for them so hopefully our water here isnt too much different

[Merrilyn]

Might be an idea to invest in a few test kits just so you can keep an eye on things yourself. You'll definately need them if you want to breed. Most LFS sell them for around $20 a kit.

So far, it sounds pretty good for discus, but we still need to know that hardness reading.

Frequent water changes are probably the most important thing for discus, around 30% twice a week is the ideal.

[byrnsy]

got all the test kits apart from one to read lower pH, i have the higher one as i have 4 tanks of africans :) with a bit of luck the numbers will be in my favour. Looking forward to picking them up saturday

[Merrilyn]

Good luck mate.

It's a very exciting time :P

Don't forget, we need lots and lots of pics.

[byrnsy]

will have some pics asap :D thanks for the great help

[byrnsy]

got my discus on saturday :lol: very happy with what i got, and have some more questions, :?

i have frozen bloodworm and the tetrabits the owner fed them, how often should i feed these 2 in a 3ft tank of thier own? (with what i have at the moment)

Also i went down to check up on them tonight (9.54pm) after the light went out at about 7pm. When i flicked the lights back on quickly both the discus were not their vibrant colour but more of a dark coloured body. Is this a problem or do discus go dull when the lights are off and sleeping?

Thanks in advance
Mick

[AHC]

hi,

Darkness is a sign of stress. They also darken as they make mucus for their fry during breeding stages. Im guessing you dont have fry yet? so it maybe them being a little stressed from the move or the water quality. As Merrilyn stated, you will be testing water quality quite a bit, especially when your getting into discus.

7 ph is fine for discus. If you choose to bring it down, never do it to the water in the tank but treat stored water wauiting to go into the tank. I use HCL (acid) to bring down my PH. I have used discus buffer and acid buffer but have now settled with HCL. I wouldnt advise using HCL unless your familiar with water parameters and its buffer zones etc. Plenty of articles around if your not.

[Hollowman]

When i flicked the lights back on quickly both the discus were not their vibrant colour but more of a dark coloured body. Is this a problem
Thanks in advance
Mick

They were in sleep mode, thats all

Hollowman

[Merrilyn]

Glad to hear you got your fish Byrnsy. Exciting times ahead for you, and btw, where are our photos :lol: You know we love our photos.

Sleeping discus do darken, so nothing to worry about. I'd be more concerned with flooding the tank with light while the fish are sleeping. We don't want them to startle and dash about the tank, maybe hurting themselves in the process.

If you want to check on your fish after lights out, use a small torch. Much less likely to startle them.

Tetra bits and bloodworms are a good start for your fish, but I'd be adding a beefheart mix to their diet and maybe some frozen brine shrimp and frozen mysis. My fish have taken to Mal's dried blackworms with relish. They are very high in protein and my fish just love them. Small chopped earthworms are great too.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is get as much variety in their diet as possible. Feed them three or four times a day, and do daily water changes. With luck, you'll soon have fry.

Good luck :P

[byrnsy]

thanks for the replies guys, good news, 1 and a half weeks after having them there are eggs on my cannister intake pipe. Will have pics coming soon. Promise :lol: Also have had recent success in getting them to eat beef heart and discus dinner, took a while to get there but they are taking a fancy to it now. Just need to work on the brine shrimp. Thanks for all your help. Top forum

Mick

[AHC]

Congratulations matie, Good luck with it. :D

[byrnsy]

Update on the eggs, checked up on them this morning and they were all gone, no sign of fry and seems like the eggs have been eaten up. There were some yellow ones and the majority were a dark colour when they were there. Anything i need to do to stop it happening again?

Mick

[AHC]

How young are they?

[byrnsy]

the adults or the eggs? the adults are about 2 or 3 years, the eggs were about 2 days

[AHC]

Sorry, i meant the adults. My discus were eating their eggs and basically it came down to a couple of things. They were still quite young and it takes a few goes to get it right as they need to learn. You already bought your adults as a pair, if they had been a pair for a while then they should have learnt a bit by now - being 2 - 3 years. Other contributing factors could be disturbances to the fish, like water changes or other fish threatening them. Sometimes parents eat their eggs/fry and some people place a wire mesh around the eggs to protect them at that stage. Parents can get bored and just eat them. I cannot remember if you had them with other fish? Sometimes if they are, it teaches them to protect the fry and they spend their time doing that rather then getting bored and eating them.

There are a few reasons that could contribute to them eating the eggs. See how they go, watch them over a few spawns. If its one particluar adult doing the eating then remove that adult and let the other one bring them up. Others here who breed may be able to give you more information.

Its trial and error while we learn with the adults - hang in there. You've done a great job so far.

[AHC]

Sorry, i meant the adults. My discus were eating their eggs and basically it came down to a couple of things. They were still quite young and it takes a few goes to get it right as they need to learn. You already bought your adults as a pair, if they had been a pair for a while then they should have learnt a bit by now - being 2 - 3 years. Other contributing factors could be disturbances to the fish, like water changes or other fish threatening them. Sometimes parents eat their eggs/fry and some people place a wire mesh around the eggs to protect them at that stage. Parents can get bored and just eat them. I cannot remember if you had them with other fish? Sometimes if they are, it teaches them to protect the fry and they spend their time doing that rather then getting bored and eating them.

There are a few reasons that could contribute to them eating the eggs. See how they go, watch them over a few spawns. It may be just them getting used to it with each other. If its one particluar adult doing the eating then remove that adult and let the other one bring them up.
Others here who breed may be able to give you more information.

Its trial and error while we learn with the adults - hang in there. You've done a great job so far.

[byrnsy]

Thanks mate, wont give up on them thats for sure. Will let you guys know how the next lot goes with some pics too!

[byrnsy]

Here are some of the long awaited pics. Since they were taken about 3 weeks ago i have got approx 40 fry swimming with the parents! They are about 2 weeks since hatching.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff264/byrnsy6/Picture011.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff264/byrnsy6/Picture012.jpg

[AHC]

wow, straight into it byrnsey! Congrats. Keep the water changes and feeds up. Good luck.

Oh, and pics of their progress would be great :D