floating discus

[Nitecongt]

It's only been happening since the start of this week. but my discus are floating just under the surface. tilting back with their mouths near the top as if they are feeding or gasping for air.

they dont seem to be gasping though and dont even seem stressed out.

I've had them all for a range of time oldest being 1.5 years and the earliest arrival is only 5-6 months old.
they are all feeding like normal and if you approach the tank they swim around like usual. the tank is community with a mix of different fish from BN to peppermints, Ghosts, tetras, spineys, glass cf and some rainbows. there are more but i cant think of them at the mo.

as for the tank
I have air stones, good filtration, the tank is planted, with sufficient light.
my water levels are showing no spikes of any kind and the ph is at it's normal level. the temp is stable at 30 degrees.

the only major changes I have done in the past month was add a piece wood I picked up off my mates farm. Which I have spent 6 month soaking all the color out, it is still leaking a little color but a bag of carbon in the filter is taking care of that. Not sure what type of wood it is, i'd guess malley (not sure of spelling) but it sank the first time i dropped it in the water.

it's nearly keeping me awake wondering if they will perish over night, i'll admit i have come in (my tanks at work in my waiting room) a few nights around midnight to see what the deal is after hours and they are sleeping like normal.

i dont know what the go is and would be very greatful for any help.

regards

[ILLUSN]

maybe take the wood out and see if they improve.

[Merrilyn]

I'm with ILLUSN on this one.

I think it's the wood too. A lot of trees contain toxins in their sap to deter insects.

You said the wood sank the first day you put it into water. That makes me think that it isn't fully dried and still contains some sap. Wood takes years to fully dry out and become safe to use in fish tanks.

The soaking would certainly have helped remove the tannins, but it would also have prevented the sap from drying out fully.

The carbon you used in your filter would have been removing not only tannins from the water, but perhaps the toxins from the residual sap. Carbon acts like a sponge, removing toxins from the water, but it reaches saturation point after a few weeks, and begins to release the toxins back into the water.

Now all this is purely speculation, however, you have to admit it seems to fit the puzzle pretty well.

My suggestion is to remove the wood and put a new lot of carbon in your filter. After a week discard that carbon and use another new batch.

Keep up your regular weekly water changes and hopefully you'll see an improvement in your fish in a few days.

[Nitecongt]

I will remove the wood I think.

From what i could find out the wood has been sitting out on the farm for about 20 years or more ... it is very sunbleachd and weather beaten. along with a few lamb and goat carcasses :?

but there is no way i will let the fish die. i didnt want to have to take it out but.

thanks for the reply guys, much appreciated

[albatrozz]

one of my discus is floating as well. I moved him and 2 other discus into my BB tank so i could let my new heckle settle in. 2 of them handled it A-OK but this one started floating, facing up at a 80 degree angle, as if gasping for air. I couldnt do anything so i left him overnight. This morning he was swimming around, i fed FBW and he ate. About 15mins later he went back to facing up and gasping for air :shock: Dont know whats wrong with him but i think he'll be ok :)

[ILLUSN]

Hows your ph?

ph shock can cause it.

[albatrozz]

pH is fine. It just has its gills extremely flared and breathes extremely fast.

[Nitecongt]

G'day all. I have an updated view on what could be my problem.

I came in to the office over the weekend whislt not getting too much work done, I did spend some time pondering and watching the fish.
the discus seem normal until it is feeding time. they eat but then after they have finished the 'floating/gasping' starts.

I feed them flake via auto feeder at about 9:00am then i feed them a mixture of frozen foods (Blood worms, Brine Shrimp, and a mix of the discus dinner, beef heart and they seem to luv the turtle dinner too so they get that aswell). also i am defrosting the food in tank water before i tip it in.
my guess is that i'm over feeding. I had upped the amount as i was worried that my bottom dwellers are not getting anything to eat as the discus devour just about everything straight away.

I'm starting a feeding program this week to see if that could be the drama.

[Nitecongt]

ok so far I had been feeding them 2x of each variety (blood,beef,brine shrimp) with flakes in the morning. but since they have been floating/ gasping i have feeding 2 cubes less of food out of the six and continuing with the flake in the morning.

some of the discus are still breathing funny whilst others dont seem to be as effected... so on that i will feed them the same amount and see what happens today. If there are still ony a few of them doing the floating/gasping thing I will try feeding less again tomorrow and hopefully (if it's over feeding thats the problem) they will all be back to normal after a feed. and if not it must be somthing else.

[Merrilyn]

Hmmm it's an interesting problem isn't it.
Did you ever take the wood out of the tank, and did that make any difference to your water parameters?

[Nitecongt]

no i havent taken the wood out yet, cause I'm certain i prepared it really well (my dear old lady can vouch for that as it has been sitting in her bath tub and her laundry sink for about six months). my observations over the past few days of feeding them a lesser amount i haven't seen them floating/gasping as much and today not at all. I'll keep an eye over the weekend and if they show any signs of distress removal of the wood is my very next action.


thank you all for your wisdom, much appreciated. I'll drop in next week on this topic and let you know what I find.

[Andrew Soh]

Your discus have gill flukes, Nitecongt.

As it is a planted tank, there is a possibility that multiple protozoan infestations are involved.

The reason is that your established tank has not been maintained well like wc and prophylactic cleaning at least every 3 months. And with the all original fishes added into the planted tank not going through quarantined and disinfection before adding into this tank, there are lots of pathogens and these parasites keep propagating.

When you feed the fishes so will the parasites interested in food because there will be lots of bacteria activitiies too. This leads to clotting of the operculum with parasites and bacteria...and irritation......depleting part of the oxygen flow.... and the gill filament ability to efficiently absorb the amount of oxygen needed. At the same time, the fishes in that tank use up more oxygen when feeding and metabolising food.

Though they are not fully delete of oxygen, it is at the same time insufficient. Knowing that there is abundance of oxygen at the top one third of the water.....they go up to the surface to get the amount leaking in the deeper water.

Solution now is to have a good cleaning of the tank...remove the plants to another container and try to disinfect them with concentrated PP for 15 to 30 minutes and do a prophylactic treatment to that tank of fishes if you want. But if you do that, you have to reseed the beneficial bacteria.

But if you don't want...you can just clean and clear the debris....and that will reduce the count to a more tolerable level.

Honestly...I will opt for the first.

It is not the wood...I think

Thank you and Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[Nitecongt]

Hmmm thats is interesting. I clean 1 or twice a week with the gravel cleaner and empty the filter every 2 weeks. water changes are weekly (with a few exceptions when i'm interstate) about a month ago the only wc problem i had was the hardness got up but i have since rectified that it its back down to about 60ppm.


what is concentrated PP exactly?


thanks for the info m8 my mind is slowly being put to rest, not there yet though

[Nitecongt]

ok I went down to my LFS and he gave me a bottle of Aqua Worm (Science Products) it's for Fluke and tapeworm. Has anybody had experiance with this product?

it says 'do not use on loaches, tetra species or baby fish and may adversly affect some species of snails'

i'm at the moment without a spare tank to use as a hospital. and it would be far too hard to catch the eels and loaches.

can i get away with half dosage or will I have to bite the bullit and get busy catching and or removing certain species?

[Andrew Soh]

PP dose is 2mg per litre of water.

Sorry I have not use that commercial product (aqua worm).

Since you claimed that you have been washing the tank regularly....then most likely it is the flukes...yes use a fluke treatment.

Sorry...cannot be of much help.

Regards,
Andrew :)

[Nitecongt]

cheers for that andrew!

been helpfull enough!

I can sleep easy at last, knowing they are not gonna be floaters in the morning

[dandaman352]

As I experienced, better your loaches and smaller fish then your discus.

[Andrew Soh]

Hope everything is well, Nite :wink:

Andrew

[Nitecongt]

damn i cant kill my loaches i have a random looking one with Leopard spots instead of stripes quite different compared to regular Kuhlii loaches.

i dont mind loosing tetras or the rasboras.
but i have aspiney Eel about 30-40cm, will he be in trouble if i use the medication I mentioned above?

[Nitecongt]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/NiteconGT/fish/DSC00395.jpg


this is what is happening after a feed each day.

and i've also noticed the smaller one of the group is begining to flair it's gills

[Andrew Soh]

Hi Nite,

If it is the only one in the tank that is acting like that all the while, it is most likely indivual infestation....could be protozoan, worms or bacteria in gill or constipation.....poor peristalsis leading to infection in the gut and bloating. If you try touching it and it doesn't dash away but stay there lethargically...it could be a viral infection....especially if it doesn't change colour and don't darken.

If all of them are acting the same, then it is environmental and need to do general disinfection for all as I mentioned earlier.

Take care,
Andrew

[nd55]

Hey Andrew,

how long must a tank lie fallow (without fish, with snails+plants) to be considered clean of parasites?

Which parasites can survive this treatment?

Nick.

[Nitecongt]

ok, the biggest one doesnt seem to be bothered as with the orange/white faced (second smallest) but the rest are looking flaired. with only one sitting at the top (from the picture).

none are lethargic, they swim around like mad as normal.

i actually havent seen them change their colour for some time. infact i think the little one who is struggling the most is actually bringing his reds and blues out more...!

i'm going to head out and grab a big plastic tub to use as a hospital, found a spare heater and a smallish in the water type filter. so i will be catching just the discus and giving them a nice cleansing bath

[Andrew Soh]

I don't really get what you are trying to say...but anyway...with snails inside the tank....cleaning and disinfection cannot reach 100% sanitarily.

Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[gro]

i just freaked looking at your photo -

i thought i was looking at my tank (although yours has more plants)

I have exactly the same fish!!

i just took a photo the other day and could swear it is the same photo

[Andrew Soh]

Gro,

what do you mean by :


I have exactly the same fish!!

i just took a photo the other day and could swear it is the same photo ????

Andrew

[gro]

basically they reminded me of mine for a split second ...and usually you see all sorts of different picys on the forum, i just have never seen picys on here that resemble both of my guys (normally one or the other) ...

[gro]

just remebered i took a pic the other day...and yes i did say for a split second..they are quite different

[Nitecongt]

very nice m8!

[Nitecongt]

finidhed the hospital tank and started treatment for gill flukes and worms. I think the main drug is prazi something or rather.

and seems to be working a treat! the fish are acting very social and seem to be showing thier true colours again!

I want to thank everybody for thier 2 cents.
it has been such a big help to have so much collective knowlage under the one roof!

Cheers!!

Kind Regards


Peter

[Nitecongt]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/NiteconGT/fish/P4220193.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/NiteconGT/fish/P4220194.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/NiteconGT/fish/P4220201.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i127/NiteconGT/fish/P4220212.jpg

thanks again people! the fish have made a big recovery!

they are eating like pigs and swimming around like they are good as new, the second treatment is nearly complete and they deffo look like they are ready to join the community tank again! :P

i have done a big clean up of the community tank and hopefully have removed or killed any un wanted nastys.

many thanks and a big thumbs up to the forum junkies and the admin crew!

[Nitecongt]

ok so I just wanted to do an update.
The fish did have worms but that wasnt the reason they were floating.

it seems the symptoms were due to over feeding.
i was feeding too much at lunch time, thinking i was feeding enough for the bottom feeders as well as the discus, but what was happening was the discus were eating all the food. so i have now started using specific food for bottom feeders.

a sinking pellet type for the ghost and spineys etc
the frozen bloods and beef heart for the discus
and flakes and floating pellets for the rest.

if i feed all of the above when it's time to feed and they all go for their favorite. the discus only get their share of blood worms or beef heart which is now a reduced amount in total.


so far so good.


mind you the prazi treatment has worked really well. they are not so bossy and they are swiming around more happily