Progress on Christmas Island

[Jules]

Hi and thanks to everyone who has had input into my dilema. Merrilyn had a fantastic idea of borrowing the filter from the tank my babies are currently housed in. This is most certainly possible as i went and asked them today. I managed to find a digital therm at the local hardware actually for use in boats to read the temp of water. It is currently holding steady at 27.3C/81.2F.I believe discus of 2-3 inches need to be kept at approx 31C is this correct :?: I also managed to find test strips i realise this is not as accurate as i need to be but at least it gives me some idea. My hardness seems to be reading way to high 500ppm. I have water softner and a proper test kit coming on thurs plane. Is this the only way to make the water softer :?: The PH seems to be reading at the 7.8 mark I know too high, how can i reduce this :?: The alkalinity is reading high 180ppm i know nothing about this. To add to my woes when i went to visit my babies the lady gave my 3yr old daughter a female siamese fighting fish something else i know nothing about. i did some research and found they are part of the betta family and i have also read on this forum that some people have bettas with their discus. Of course my daughter wants to put her fish in mummy's big tank but i have explained to her this is not possible am i correct :?: It is currently in a 7.2 litre container witha sponge filter i have read they need 8. My other tank is approx 80 litres but i wanted to keep this as a hospital tank however this is also where my goldfish will have to go back to when my beautiful babies come home. So what do i do with that if my discus get sick :?: All very daunting but very exciting. Tried to add pics but with my incredible soeed of 26.4kbs it just doesn't seem to do it sorry getting broadband here soon (old style better than this though) another thing to be excited about!!!

[Mr Discus]

Okay...

Around 30 degrees celcius for Juvie discus - well, any discus really.

Test strips are ok - at least they will give you a rough indication, as long as they are not intended for saltwater use as this can alter the outcome quite a bit. I can't comment on the water's hardness as I am not savvy on that subject, possibly Merrilyn or ILLUSN can answer that one.

Your high Ph at 7.8 can be reduced by doing water changes and adding rain water. The rain water is usually very soft, so it helps to reduce hardness and Ph at the same time usually. I think you mentioned in a previous post that you have a rainwater tank, or at least access to it?

You are correct in that you can't (well you really shouldn't) put a Siamese Fighter in with Discus. They will normally get on fine temperament wise (especially seeing as it is a female and they are basically not agressive at all compared to the males), but their water condition requirements are quite different. Discus like high temps, Bettas like lower temps (like 24 degrees or less, but you can keep them without a heater at all, as they are EXTREMELY hardy, and can tolerate huge temp fluctuations). Bettas are easy to keep. Just do little water changes with them, at the same time as you do with your discus and they will be happy. 50% changes tend to work well.

If I were you I would ditch the goldfish once the discus come along, and just keep the spare tank exclusively for quarantine or as a hospital tank. Trust me, once you get discus you will not pay much attention to boring old goldfish anymore!

Hope that all helps. Keep the questions coming as its the only way to learn and gain more confidence Jules!

[the german]

The alkalinity is reading high 180ppm:

Alkalinity or AT is a measure of the ability of a solution to neutralize acids to the equivalence point of carbonate or bicarbonate. Alkalinity is closely related to the acid neutralizing capacity (ANC) of a solution and ANC is often incorrectly used to refer to alkalinity. However, the acid neutralizing capacity refers to the combination of the solution and solids present (e.g., suspended matter, or aquifer solids), and the contribution of solids can dominate the ANC :D

you need to measure kh and dh.
ph is a bit high you should be arround neutral,use phosphiric acid or hydrochloric acid,but only a few drops at the time and then measure the ph after each time you add acid,better disolve the acid in a bucket with water,WATER FIRST very important.

[TW]

I'm guilty of keeping a male betta with discus. Was concerned reading read above about temp not really being compatible, so I googled Betta profiles to put my mind at ease that I wasn't cooking my poor betta. From profiles I read on line (didn't read all hits that came up, so possible you might find others that contradict ones I read), I believe Bettas & Discus are fine to be housed together, temperature wise. This is a direct quote from here http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/anabantids2/p/betta.htm
but was fairly typical of what I found written about preferred Betta temps:
Although many fish keepers are aware that Bettas come from shallow waters, a key factor that is often overlooked is the water temperature. These countries are tropical, which means the water temperature is quite warm - often reaching into the 80's. Bettas thrive on heat, and will become increasingly listless when the water temperature falls below 75 degrees F. Water temperature is perhaps the biggest argument against keeping a betta in a tiny bowl (which cannot readily be heat controlled). Common temps quoted were 24c to 30c or 32c. Several mentioned they get listless in temps below 25c

Here are some of sites I looked at: http://www.siamsbestbettas.com/care.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamese_fighting_fish and http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/545.htm and http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/anabantids2/p/betta.htm but you get the idea & can google yourself for extra info.

Whether you should add your betta at this time though, when you will already be adding 12 discus at once, is debatable. If you do ever add him, maybe do it a little later when you know the discus tank is stable.

Just my thoughts. Hope all works out well for you. Good luck with the discus.

[ILLUSN]

betta's do great at 30C, and the fry grow at least 4x faster then at 26C.

your alklinity is high so you'll have to keep an eye out for disease.

if you want to adjust your water chemisrty, do as the german has suggested and test and retest the water before it goes into your tank.

a lower ph would be better, but if they are accustomed to your water they'll do ok.

[Merrilyn]

Siamese fighting fish only fight amongst themselves (the males that is) so your female will be fine in the discus tank. They will just ignore each other.

If the juvie discus have been used to a mix of rainwater and tap water, and they are doing well, then you can do the same thing. That's going to be a lot easier for you than trying to adjust the water using acids. As you're new to discus, you'll have enough to learn, so best to try to keep things as simple as possible.

I'd be looking for a tank heater. Young discus need to be warm, and although they will survive at 27 degrees, they will do much better at a higher temp. Aim for 30 degrees for juveniles.

Good luck Jules. It's all very exciting isn't it :P